Magus and the consequences of losing lower level spells

[Boomcrash]

Looking at the new class, a few questions came up to mind related to the mechanic of losing low level spells when you level up as a magus. Specifically related to using staves and crafting scrolls. These are the relevant bits I've found in the books:
-

Magus losing spells

Secrets of Magic p 36 wrote:

Because you split your focus between physical training and magical scholarship, you have no more than two spell slots of your highest level and, if you can cast 2nd-level spells or higher, two spell slots of 1 level lower than your highest spell level.

Secrets of Magic p 37 wrote:

Though you lose some lower spell slots as you increase in level, you keep the spells in your spellbook and can prepare them in your higher-level slots as normal.

-

Casting spell from staves

Core Rulebook p 592 wrote:

You can Cast a Spell from a staff only if you have that spell on your spell list, are able to cast spells of the appropriate level, and expend a number of charges from the staff equal to the spell’s level..

-

Crafting a scroll

Core Rulebook p 565 wrote:

When you begin the crafting process, choose a spell to put into the scroll. You have to either Cast that Spell during the crafting process, or someone else must do so in your presence. (...) The casting must come from a spellcaster expending a spell slot.

-

My questions would be:

1. Can a magus cast spells of lower level, from a staff? This one seems particularly unfair if they cannot, seeing there's a staff-wielding subclass that's looks geared towards using magic staves...

2. Can a magus craft a scroll containing a spell of low level on their own without needing a secondary caster?

Am I missing other important bits of rules? Thank you!

[Guntermench]

I read "appropriate level" as not being above your highest level spell slot, to prevent Wizards/Witches and multiclass dedications with prepared casting from casting higher level spells than they would otherwise have access to. Basically, if you could otherwise cast the spell you can use it from a staff.

People have disagreed with me on this however by reading it as "are able to cast spells of exactly this level".

They would not, however, be able to supply the castings of spells required to make Scrolls, Staves and Wands of levels below their spell slots.

[Themetricsystem]

Yeah, this is a standing problem.

Ambiguity in terms of what "Appropriate" means there isn't a real solid answer we can point to, we have no idea if appropriate is supposed to mean that SPECIFIC spell level/slot, or if it's supposed to mean ANY spell level/slot that is equal to or greater than.

The wording needs to be fixed, the tables in SoM need updated from - to 0 when you LOSE the slots, or clarification needs to be made, as it stands nobody has a real solid position they can make based on RAW because the most important parts of this are effectively undefined.

1) I would allow this 100% (I would NOT however allow them to benefit from a Ring of Wizardry for lower-level slots they lose)

2) My interpretation is that you need to be able to cast LITERALLY the spell that is being put in the scroll, now some lower or higher-level version of it, you need the exact spell at the level you're storing it to cast.

[Ascalaphus]

I think this is just a mistake in the CRB, they wrote that staff rule at least a year before they even started the magus playtest. The magus is obviously intended to use staves.

This is where as a GM you're supposed to just use common sense to paper over glitches until they can be officially fixed.

[Unicore]

The staff issue is an non-issue, but would probably benefit from a clear FAQ to help people who overthink the connection between spell slots and ability to cast spells of a certain level, which are treated as two separate things in PF2.

All casters only gain the ability to cast spells of a certain level. Bound casters only lose spell slots of lower levels. No where does it say that they stop being able to casting spells of that level.

The scroll issue is different, but not that big a deal. I think if crafter /lots of low level spell scrolls is your vision for your magi, you are taking a spell casting archetype. If a scroll focused archetype is your goal, those grant their own abilities and Magi want higher level scrolls much more than lower level ones if they can get them for free.

[TheGentlemanDM]

Ascalaphus wrote:

I think this is just a mistake in the CRB, they wrote that staff rule at least a year before they even started the magus playtest. The magus is obviously intended to use staves.

This is where as a GM you're supposed to just use common sense to paper over glitches until they can be officially fixed.

I'd imagine the class with an entire class feat dedicated to integrating staves and an entire subclass around making staves viable as weapons would probably be intended to make full use of casting from staves.

[Salamileg]

Ascalaphus wrote:

This is where as a GM you're supposed to just use common sense to paper over glitches until they can be officially fixed.

Honestly I kinda wish I saw people say this more often around here.