Magical Crafting as a Service

[tapion]

Hi everyone.

My team has a formula for upgrade Sturdy Shield from Minor (lvl 4,100 gp) to Lesser (lvl 7, 360 gp) but no time for Crafting (they need to craft some others items and do some adventure tasks).

They know a "wizard merchant" in the area. Can this wizard help with this crafting? I assume yes, why not? But, what is the cost?

If I read Earn Income table, I presume the cost is:
Lvl 7 task, expert: 2,5 gp/day. Crafting task = 4 days. So... 10 gp, right?
An addition, half price from materials. The difference from minor to lesser is 260 gp... half price = 130 gp.
Final price = 10 (earn income) + 130 (materials) = 140 gp.

Another option is consulting Spellcasting Services. In that case, lvl 7 item is aprox a level 4 spell, so 40 gp + 25% for extra time = 50 gp. Plus materials = 130 + 50 = 180 gp.

What do you think? If you have a better option o suggest, be my guest :) And sorry, my english is not very good ^__^U

Thanks!

[HumbleGamer]

Well, a crafter needs:

-1 gold to sustain himself during the 4 days ( it's 1g for a week, but rather than subdivide it by 7 I'd leave it 1g ).

-Golds for the 4 days crafting. The NPC gains nothing, so it has to be paid for that 4 days lvl 7 task ( crafting the shield ) which is 2.5gp per day, so 10 golds as you wrote.

-He also needs half the cost of the shield in materials which is 360/2 = 180g

I don't get the part about the difference from minor to lesser. they are different items and as far as I recall you can only do that specific tricks with potency runes. If characters can do it with shields too, so would it the same with bracers of armor, elixirs of life, etc...?

-Golds to complete the shield

Now, once the 4 working day passed, the NPC attempts a check to craft.

A success or a critical success allows tthe npc to craft the shield.

If the NPC gets a success there are 2 ways.

1) the NPC pays the other half cost of the sturdy shield ( so another 180g ) to complete it. Obviously, you have to give him the equivalent.

2) The NPC continue to work day after day until he gets 180g ( 2.5g per day would require 72 days to complete the shield ).

3) A mix of it ( do your math ).

On a critical success
Each additional day spent Crafting reduces the materials needed to complete the item by an amount based on your level + 1 and your proficiency rank in Crafting

So instead of 2.5g per day the NPC would get 3g per day, but what would change for you adventurers is just the fact that you'll get your shield sooner and you'll have to pay less for the NPC cost of living.

[NielsenE]

Your first version sounds correct to me.

You need to may the NPC crafter for their time. Using the Earn Income success price per day sounds completely reasonable. However if this is an ongoing NPC, the PCs might be able to build up a relationship and get some discount on this portion of the price if they're returning customers/etc.

I don't think I'd add the '1 gold to sustain himself' that HumbleGamer mentioned --that's what their earnings from Earn Income is supposed to be targeting, so the crafter would essentially be double charging people with that. (Now that might be roleplay reasons, but its not a rule base reason).

The rules for being able to upgrade an item within its named versions is here:

CRB 535:

The GM might allow you to Craft a permanent item from a lower-level version of the same item as an upgrade. For example, you might upgrade a bag of holding from a type I to a type II bag, but you couldn't upgrade a clear spindle aeon stone into an orange prism aeon stone. The cost for this upgrade is the full difference in Price between the items, and the Crafting check uses a DC for the item's new level.

As a home GM I always allow it; and as a Society GM it is explicitly authorized. It seems to be a pretty common 'yes the GM allows it', but it is always good to confirm with the GM.

Now the only bit that feels a bit wrong is that its not a formula 'to upgrade a minor sturdy shield to a lesser.'. Its simple a formula for a lesser sturdy shield. Which could be used to do the upgrade as you're doing, or to craft a new one from scratch, etc. (Unless the GM invented a upgrade only formula.) This doesn't make any difference to the costs your discussing though.

[HumbleGamer]

I don't really agree on the earn income part.

It's like working and being able to keep all the earnings without worrying about Bills, rent, food, and so on.

As you said youself, it's a supposition of yours.
Though I admit it would speed calculations up.

Good for the rules about upgrading stuff ( even if it's a might ).
I'd also authorize it since it speed things up and give players more stuff to play with ( I noticed also that unless characters spend a lot of time during downtime, they won't be able to get enough golds to keep up with t he levelling ).

[lochinvar1971]

It is actually simpler than looking up the earned income. In Table 6-14 Basic Services and Consumables a skilled hireling costs 5sp per day. So the cost would be the cost of the hireling and the cost of materials.

.5 gp x 4 days = 2 gp + 130gp of Materials for a total 132gp.

If spellcasting is required there is an additional table Table 6-15: Spellcasting Services that may be applicable.

This table is not printed on AON so it is easy to miss.

[NielsenE]

A skilled hireling wouldn't have a high enough level/modifier to handle the check, which is why using the earn income tables to set the wage is a better proxy based on their level.

The skilled hireling assumes basically a level 1 NPC with skill training and I think a +2 ability mod.

[Charon Onozuka]

The difference in price is 260gp. If you want the item done in 4 days, the crafter would need half of the cost upfront in materials, then the other half of the cost in order to complete the item after a successful check at the end of 4 days. If you pay any less than the 260gp difference, the Wizard is losing money due to material costs.

Of course, it'd be reasonable for him to charge something extra for the service, since 260gp is just him breaking even. This is mostly GM fiat territory, though I'd consider your Earn Income calculation to be reasonable, adding an extra 10gp for 4 days work, for a total of 270gp. Basically, you end up paying the 260gp you'd have to if you crafted it yourself, plus 10gp for the merchant spending their time instead of yours.

---

If you are willing to wait longer than 4 days, the cost calculation gets a bit more complex:

Original Material cost starts at 130gp, which is half the difference in price.

The remaining difference in price (also 130gp) is reduced by an amount based on the Wizard's level and proficiency (not the task level) for every day spent after the initial 4 days. Without knowing the Wizard's info - it is difficult to say if this would be worth it.

For example: A 7th level Wizard with expert proficiency would reduce the cost by 2.5gp each day, needing 56 days total to reduce the remaining price to 0. Meanwhile, a 10th level Wizard with master proficiency would reduce the cost by 6gp each day, needing only 26 days to reduce the remaining price to 0.

The Wizard will want to be compensated for the time required, which using Earn Income could reasonably be 2.5gp a day considering the difficulty of the task. That said, if the Wizard is higher level and his Merchant business is pulling in more money per day (8th level task or higher) then they may not be willing to accept the task unless you're paying at least what they'd normally make. Otherwise, they'd technically lose money by spending downtime crafting for you instead of just doing their normal day job instead.

[NielsenE]

Ahh yes I missed that the OP was halving the cost of the upgrade. You do still need to pay the full cost of the difference in prices, unless you're paying extra days of labor and dragging out in time (in which case you're still ultimately paying the same amount.