Conrasu - Rite of Reinforcement

[Rose Claymore]

This heritage says a conrasu’s exoskeleton is medium armor. Specifically

Lost Omens: The Mwangi Expanse wrote:

Your woven exoskeleton rivals the hardest armors that can be found. Your exoskeleton is medium armor in the plate armor group that grants a +4 item bonus to AC, a Dex cap of +1, a check penalty of –2, a speed penalty of –5 feet, and a Strength value of 16, and has the comfort trait. You can never wear other armor or remove your exoskeleton. You can etch armor runes onto your exoskeleton as normal.

For feats and class abilities, and most importantly proficiency, is this actually armor? Is it considered wearing armor for a monk? Is it using medium armor proficiency or unarmored?

Any help or guidance is appreciated. Thanks!

[Guntermench]

Quote:

Your exoskeleton is medium armor in the plate armor group

It is armour, and it uses medium armour proficiency.

[Dubious Scholar]

I find it very annoying that it doesn't grant proficiency, however.

[HumbleGamer]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

I find it very annoying that it doesn't grant proficiency, however.

Basic proficiency "shouldn't be an issue", as for the Android Warrior heritage ( which gives trained in simple and martial weapons, though no increased progression ).

Obviously this wouldn't work with the monk since you won't be unarmored, and once you hit expert proficiency you'd be stuck with the trained one ( unless you manage to empower it ), but to begin with It might be ok.

I say "it might" because apart from monk and champion, the character will be benefitting from a wonderful AC for 12 levels, which is way better than any weapon proficiency ( a spellcaster for example would be able to drop dex to 12 and increase str to 16, which would require way less investement than having 20 dex or taking the sentinel dedication ).

I am not expecting errata, but we'll see.

[Gortle]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

I find it very annoying that it doesn't grant proficiency, however.

Yes. You would think at least it would give you trained ability in that type of armour just to get started.

To me the ability says Druid, as they are proficient but will otherwise have trouble getting medium armour that is not metallic.

Personally I'm looking forward to being able to play a Triffid.

[AlastarOG]

Conrasu leaf order druid is now my new most hyped upcoming character....

[CaffeinatedNinja]

Problem is, if it gives trained it is really powerful. It is basically two general feats for a caster class, well above the power budget.

And if it only gives trained, what happens at lvl 13, when you get light/unarmored as expert but not the armor you have to wear? I suppose you could have a lvl 13 feat, but see again power budget.

Or it gives scaling, like sentinel, in which case it is insanely powerful, basically sentinel that you don't have to take feats to get out of.

[Squiggit]

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Problem is, if it gives trained it is really powerful. It is basically two general feats for a caster class, well above the power budget.

I mean you could say the same about the Android heritage. In practice it's actually kinda gimmicky.

[CaffeinatedNinja]

Squiggit wrote:

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Problem is, if it gives trained it is really powerful. It is basically two general feats for a caster class, well above the power budget.

I mean you could say the same about the Android heritage. In practice it's actually kinda gimmicky.

Granted. A couple things though. This would be extra gimmicky because your proficiency in armor you can't remove falls behind! You can just switch out a weapon.

Also, bumping armor up two levels is a lot more powerful/useful in practice than giving a wizard a sword.

[HumbleGamer]

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Squiggit wrote:

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Problem is, if it gives trained it is really powerful. It is basically two general feats for a caster class, well above the power budget.

I mean you could say the same about the Android heritage. In practice it's actually kinda gimmicky.

Granted. A couple things though. This would be extra gimmicky because your proficiency in armor you can't remove falls behind! You can just switch out a weapon.

Also, bumping armor up two levels is a lot more powerful/useful in practice than giving a wizard a sword.

Totally agree.

The gap in terms of power is neat and in favore of the armor.

And do not forget the comfort trait, which seems to be the most difficult thing to achieve in terms of armors ( don't know why).

[Aw3som3-117]

You know... there's other heritages. It's a fine option for some characters without giving you proficiency. It's basically just free Breastplate at level 1 with the comfort trait and no bulk, which might not sound that great, but no bulk and the comfort trait are both nice. If it also gave you proficiency I think it would probably too much. Heck, even if it gave you proficiency and didn't come with comfort and 0 bulk armor it might be a bit much (imo).

[CaffeinatedNinja]

Aw3som3-117 wrote:

You know... there's other heritages. It's a fine option for some characters without giving you proficiency. It's basically just free Breastplate at level 1 with the comfort trait and no bulk, which might not sound that great, but no bulk and the comfort trait are both nice. If it also gave you proficiency I think it would probably too much. Heck, even if it gave you proficiency and didn't come with comfort and 0 bulk armor it might be a bit much (imo).

You know, I hadn't considered the no bulk part. That is 2 bulk you save, the equivalent of getting Hefty Hauler, even if you aren't trained in athletics.

So Hefty Hauler Equivalent, and Comfort (which is a skill feat through sentinel) is 2 skill feats for a heritage, not horrible.

[HumbleGamer]

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Aw3som3-117 wrote:

You know... there's other heritages. It's a fine option for some characters without giving you proficiency. It's basically just free Breastplate at level 1 with the comfort trait and no bulk, which might not sound that great, but no bulk and the comfort trait are both nice. If it also gave you proficiency I think it would probably too much. Heck, even if it gave you proficiency and didn't come with comfort and 0 bulk armor it might be a bit much (imo).

You know, I hadn't considered the no bulk part. That is 2 bulk you save, the equivalent of getting Hefty Hauler, even if you aren't trained in athletics.

So Hefty Hauler Equivalent, and Comfort (which is a skill feat through sentinel) is 2 skill feats for a heritage, not horrible.

It's a skill feat available through a dedication ( sentinel) and a perk which works like hefty hauler but it's not hefty hauler, so it can stack with it.

Just to say that it's way better.

[Gortle]

Aw3som3-117 wrote:

You know... there's other heritages. It's a fine option for some characters without giving you proficiency. It's basically just free Breastplate at level 1 with the comfort trait and no bulk, which might not sound that great, but no bulk and the comfort trait are both nice. If it also gave you proficiency I think it would probably too much. Heck, even if it gave you proficiency and didn't come with comfort and 0 bulk armor it might be a bit much (imo).

I wouldn't agree that it would be too much. I mean the 5 points of AC from Dex + Armour is pretty much an assumption built into the game. Most classes get it free as party of the package. Casters sometimes have to take a feat. No bulk and comfort is nice but rarely relevant.

[CaffeinatedNinja]

Gortle wrote:

Aw3som3-117 wrote:

You know... there's other heritages. It's a fine option for some characters without giving you proficiency. It's basically just free Breastplate at level 1 with the comfort trait and no bulk, which might not sound that great, but no bulk and the comfort trait are both nice. If it also gave you proficiency I think it would probably too much. Heck, even if it gave you proficiency and didn't come with comfort and 0 bulk armor it might be a bit much (imo).

I wouldn't agree that it would be too much. I mean the 5 points of AC from Dex + Armour is pretty much an assumption built into the game. Most classes get it free as party of the package. Casters sometimes have to take a feat. No bulk and comfort is nice but rarely relevant.

I think for some classes it wouldn't. For a caster it is REALLY good since you need 2 general feats to get to medium normally, on top of the pair of skill feats it gives.

Plus what do you do when you hit 13? You basically have to take sentinel? You can't take this off hah.

[Aw3som3-117]

Gortle wrote:

Aw3som3-117 wrote:

You know... there's other heritages. It's a fine option for some characters without giving you proficiency. It's basically just free Breastplate at level 1 with the comfort trait and no bulk, which might not sound that great, but no bulk and the comfort trait are both nice. If it also gave you proficiency I think it would probably too much. Heck, even if it gave you proficiency and didn't come with comfort and 0 bulk armor it might be a bit much (imo).

I wouldn't agree that it would be too much. I mean the 5 points of AC from Dex + Armour is pretty much an assumption built into the game. Most classes get it free as party of the package. Casters sometimes have to take a feat. No bulk and comfort is nice but rarely relevant.

+5 between item bonus and dex bonus is an assumption built into the game at a given level based on one's class, and the different armor types allow for different stat distributions as well. I really don't see how it being part of a party's package is a point in favor of allowing it. By that logic why not just give anyone expert proficiency in martial weapons at level 1 via a heritage? After all, that only brings them in line with the fighter class. Yes, the fighter class is just one class as opposed to several that get the ability to get +5 to AC from Dex + Item bonus, but would the argument really change if there were 2 classes with fighter proficiency in weapons? How about three? My point is that the prevalence of something in other classes isn't a good reason to allow it for every class.

As for the no bulk and comfort part: *shrugs* To each their own. It's not really relevant to my point. Even if it's too weak as it is, that wouldn't mean that allowing for proficiency isn't "a bit much". In fact, I specifically mentioned that I think even without that it would be over tuned if it gave proficiency.

[Gortle]

CaffeinatedNinja wrote:

Gortle wrote:

Aw3som3-117 wrote:

You know... there's other heritages. It's a fine option for some characters without giving you proficiency. It's basically just free Breastplate at level 1 with the comfort trait and no bulk, which might not sound that great, but no bulk and the comfort trait are both nice. If it also gave you proficiency I think it would probably too much. Heck, even if it gave you proficiency and didn't come with comfort and 0 bulk armor it might be a bit much (imo).

I wouldn't agree that it would be too much. I mean the 5 points of AC from Dex + Armour is pretty much an assumption built into the game. Most classes get it free as party of the package. Casters sometimes have to take a feat. No bulk and comfort is nice but rarely relevant.

I think for some classes it wouldn't. For a caster it is REALLY good since you need 2 general feats to get to medium normally, on top of the pair of skill feats it gives.

Plus what do you do when you hit 13? You basically have to take sentinel? You can't take this off hah.

Yes its a problem but something I went into with my eyes open.

Current campaign stops at level 12. So no dramas there.
I'm got a druid so it works anyway.
I could also take Diverse Armor Expert if I wanted.
Maybe I could reincarnate as a different heritage. Which from the backstory of the Conrasu might be acceptable to a GM.

Still a problem for most though.

[Cordell Kintner]

Here's another issue: Conrasu build their exoskeletons to fit their role, not the other way around. It says so in their lore: "Conrasus themselves are called to a path and, once they find it, shape frames to create a suitable form, leading to a wide variety of appearances."

I can't see a Conrasu fortifying their exoskeleton to the point where it's Medium armor unless their path in life was to be a Defender of sorts, so it really shouldn't be an issue for a caster. They would be more likely to shape their exoskeletons into an easier shape to cast magic or knowledge.