As my friends and I prepare to start Fists of the Ruby Phoenix, it seems I have a decision to make.
Should I go with a Con heavy/mobility build with my animal instinct barbarian? (LINK)
Or should I sacrifice Constitution and mobility for higher Dexterity, Thievery, and Flurry of Blows? (LINK)
The latter lowers Con and raises Dex to meet the prerequisites for Monk Dedication early on, drops No Escape and Furious Sprint in exhange for Monk Dedication and Monk Flurry (respectively), switches Hide armor for Leather armor, and gains Thievery and a set of thieves' tools. Sudden Charge is not compatible with Flurry of Blows, sadly, and neither are compatible with Furious Grab (as it only works with normal Strikes, not subordinate Strikes) which I intend to take at 12.
The former is meatier and more mobile. No Escape competes for the reaction with Attack of Opportunity, which is not ideal either.
Looking for advice on making a stronger, more fun-to-play build. Other party members are a druid-base wildshaping barbarian, a sword and board fighter, and a healing-focused Life oracle.
Feel free to discuss the merits of Con over Dex or vice versa more generally, but specific character advice is what I most desire.
Maybe it's just me, but I see the second link with the same stats as the first one ( +0 dex ). It's probably just me ( I'll check later ).
Do you have the paid version of Pathbuilder? I got a pop-up upon exporting the link saying that the characters used paid features.
Just double checked it and they are different links bringing up slightly different characters.
I've outlined the specific differences in the above post. The straight barbarian should have 16 Dex 18 Con, and the monk archetype barbarian should have 18 Dex and 16 Con. Feats, skills, and gear are slightly different as well.
Here is a more traditional character stat block for the unmodified barbarian, for those of you who don't use Pathbuilder. I don't have one for the monk variant at this time, sadly.
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Barbarian is all about being hit and hitting back. I would go for the CON first. In fact, I would take a shield (big advantage of the Animal Barbarian over other totems) and take the Sentinel archetype to get heavy armor (and dump DEX actually). With Unburdened Iron included obviously.
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First, the Onedrive file looks amazing! Can you share how you made it?
Second, for a Flurry Barbarian I recommend a half-elf sentinel with 10 DEX, Multitalented to Monk Dedication, then Flurry of Blows at level 10. If you go with that build, then obviously CON over DEX, maybe boost CHA for Demoralize (via Raging Intimidation). IMHO, CHA is the fun ability score.
If you're attached to playing your dwarf, I'd leave DEX at 14, pick up Adopted Ancestry (Human), then Multitalented, then Flurry of Blows + shield. Sentinel might still be an OK archetype.
In general, I think >14 DEX is only good for DEX-based builds or builds that have bad armor, since plate armor is better for AC and increases Reflex. Heavy armor does have a speed penalty, but it's easy to offset (monk, longstrider, Fleet, Unburdened Iron, etc.)
Barbarian is all about being hit and hitting back. I would go for the CON first. In fact, I would take a shield (big advantage of the Animal Barbarian over other totems) and take the Sentinel archetype to get heavy armor (and dump DEX actually). With Unburdened Iron included obviously.
A shield might work, but I kind of want others to perceive her to be nothing more than a harmless old crone right up until she smacks somebody. Plate armor does not exactly scream harmless.
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Barbarian is all about being hit and hitting back. I would go for the CON first. In fact, I would take a shield (big advantage of the Animal Barbarian over other totems) and take the Sentinel archetype to get heavy armor (and dump DEX actually). With Unburdened Iron included obviously.
This, pretty much. An animal barbarian with heavy armor and a shield is ridiculously tanky between high AC, Shield Block, Temp HP from rage and the class's damage Resistance. Animal also has a great action-saver with Predator's Pounce (especially with Greater Rage making it 3 actions for 1), so I don't think Monk is necessary at all.
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Barbarian is all about being hit and hitting back. I would go for the CON first. In fact, I would take a shield (big advantage of the Animal Barbarian over other totems) and take the Sentinel archetype to get heavy armor (and dump DEX actually). With Unburdened Iron included obviously.A shield might work, but I kind of want others to perceive her to be nothing more than a harmless old crone right up until she smacks somebody. Plate armor does not exactly scream harmless.
TBH in a party of heavily armored obviously high-level adventurers, the one I would fear most is the one that looks pretty harmless.
Granted, I would likely mistake her for a caster.
Also Glamered Rune is a thing ;-)
Also Glamered Rune is a thing ;-)
True, but generally the more investment something requires, the less attractive it becomes.
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Glamered is a pretty cheap rune, though.
Glamered is a pretty cheap rune, though.
But it's not just glamered is it? It's a shield, a rune, an archetype Dedication, a steep ability adjustment, AND an ancestry feat.
It all starts to add up. Makes for a great build, certainly, but I fear it goes too far afield of my desired character concept.
I get what you mean, though I really think the shield is a literal life-saver for any Animal Barbarian.
I think I could probably swing the shield if need be. :)
But, um, rather than using Raise a Shield, would I not be better off using Sudden Charge to close, then Striding out of melee range, then using my reach to get an Attack of Opportunity when they close in (or try to get past me)?
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I get what you mean, though I really think the shield is a literal life-saver for any Animal Barbarian.I think I could probably swing the shield if need be. :)
But, um, rather than using Raise a Shield, would I not be better off using Sudden Charge to close, then Striding out of melee range, then using my reach to get an Attack of Opportunity when they close in (or try to get past me)?
If you do this, the only difference is that you are not providing flank to a potential ally. Also the shield helps against ranged attacks ;-)
If you're going to be in melee, Con is probably slightly more valuable than Dex. There are a lot of creatures with auras, poison bites, and diseases that are based on a good Fort save. Diseases and poisons can be quite nasty in this edition.
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Barbarian is all about being hit and hitting back. I would go for the CON first. In fact, I would take a shield (big advantage of the Animal Barbarian over other totems) and take the Sentinel archetype to get heavy armor (and dump DEX actually). With Unburdened Iron included obviously.This, pretty much. An animal barbarian with heavy armor and a shield is ridiculously tanky between high AC, Shield Block, Temp HP from rage and the class's damage Resistance. Animal also has a great action-saver with Predator's Pounce (especially with Greater Rage making it 3 actions for 1), so I don't think Monk is necessary at all.
But Animal Skin, the feat the makes the Animal Barbarian one of the tankiest barbarians around, doesn't work if you're wearing armor.
But Animal Skin, the feat the makes the Animal Barbarian one of the tankiest barbarians around, doesn't work if you're wearing armor.Barbarian is all about being hit and hitting back. I would go for the CON first. In fact, I would take a shield (big advantage of the Animal Barbarian over other totems) and take the Sentinel archetype to get heavy armor (and dump DEX actually). With Unburdened Iron included obviously.This, pretty much. An animal barbarian with heavy armor and a shield is ridiculously tanky between high AC, Shield Block, Temp HP from rage and the class's damage Resistance. Animal also has a great action-saver with Predator's Pounce (especially with Greater Rage making it 3 actions for 1), so I don't think Monk is necessary at all.
Animal Skin's usefulness depends on what level you're looking at.
Full plate provides +1 AC from levels 1 to 5, -1 AC from 6 to 12 and equal AC from level 13-20. All this is in Rage. If you're hit while not raging, full plate is better across all levels unless you overinvest into Dex (i.e. push it past +3).
The Bulwark trait means you don't really need any Dex for defense so you can invest more into Con (and possible Wis) to bolster your HP and saves. And you can potentially upgrade it later with Mighty Bulwark, especially on a free archetype build, which this topic is about as far as I can tell.
Animal Skin is a level 6 feat and clashes with Attack of Opportunity. I personally don't find the 2nd level feats of the barbarian very appealing, so picking up Sentinel Dedication is much easier to do.
You can get some early Damage Resistance going with the Armor Specialist skill feat. At higher levels, heavy armor allows you to utilize Fortification runes. The Speed penalty is negligible with Fleet, Sudden Charge, Predator's Pounce and Fast Movement.
It's a matter of perspective, but I personally think the advantages of heavy armor outweight the small AC bonus Animal Skin can give you for a (admittedly seizable) number of levels.
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...especially on a free archetype build, which this topic is about as far as I can tell.
We are not using the Free Archetype option. Every feat is precious.
...especially on a free archetype build, which this topic is about as far as I can tell.We are not using the Free Archetype option. Every feat is precious.
Even more reason to spend a 2nd level feat instead of a 6th level feat on defense, if you ask me.
Or you could just ignore all this and keep fighting in medium armor, of course. :)
Assuming dwarf, a str background and no flaw, your stats at level 1 should be 18/14/14/10/14/8 and scale to 20/18/18/10/18/8 at level 10. You suffer lower max hp and saves early, but that's what your oracle is for. In exchange, you have better ref saves starting at 10 and the best single action damage in flurry.
Sudden charge doesn't interact with flurry, but it's still a gap closer and good on action economy.
For level 4, wounded rage since you don't have the trunk to AoO before your turn and you want to delay your initiative to let buffs and debuffs get applied first anyway. If you need to close in on a fleeing enemy, that's what sudden charge is for.
Level 6 and 8 are animal skin and AoO in either order.
Level 10 is flurry.
Assuming you move every turn, Spellguard shield is a good 3rd action, but so is just attacking a 3rd time or using an item.
Go with your character concept, not with what all the min/max types are telling you to do. Far too often people play the rules and forget that this is a roleplaying game. I personally think animal barbarian with shield looks dumb (as does any unarmed attack + shield). There is a reason the classes that fight unarmed also forgo armor and shields. It is part of the fantasy.
Yeah, I've built out nearly all the suggested builds in PathBuilder and painstakingly compared them against my current personal build and found them all to be lacking in some form or another.
They're not bad builds by any stretch of the imagination, they're just not good builds for me.