Hi I recently started playing Pathfinder 2e, long time 1e GM.
When the pandemic started my group disbanded and now we are trying online play.
I played a few scenarios and now we are playing age of ashes, tried playing an alchemist but it wasn't fun so I'm going back to my favorite class, cleric, I've seen some posts about builds and have come up with this character, we are 3rd level now, I have no idea what items to equip him with, the GM has given me 1 2nd level item, 1 1st level item and 25gp to equip my character.
This is my selection of feats skills and spells, any changes suggestions and equipment options are appreciated.
Stats
Str and Int +0
Dex and Con +1
Cha +3
Wis +4
Background Dragon Scholar
Human, Versatile
Level 1
Battle Medicine, Adapted cantrip (electric Arc), Domain Sun, Healing font
Level 2
Reach spell, Assurance (medicine)
Level 3
Risky surgery
Skills
Trained
Acrobatics, Intimidation, Religion, Diplomacy, Lore Dragons
Expert
Medicine
Spells prepared
Cantrips
Electric Arc, Shield, Stabilize, Disrupt undead, Light
1st
Magic Weapon, Sanctuary, Disrupting weapons
2nd
Burning hands H1, Spiritual weapon
Though not being a min-maxer a couple of general issues:
Usually it is recommended that you have max AC as early as possible in order to not get shred to pieces if something bypasses your front lines, so you might consider respective options (multiclassing into armor archetypes, starting with higher Dex etc). Of course this is very much depending on your group composition and GM style of play.
It also is recommended to always have a viable 3rd action alongside spellcasting, i.e. skill actions like Demoralize, (preferably ranged) weapon attacks or spells (Shield, Guidance).
Spell selection is according to personal preference (for instance I dislike to-hit spells, especially from level 5 onwards, when martials proficiency levels surpass your own), however the general opinion seems to be that low level direct damage spells are not worth it. Can I interest you in Calm Emotions instead?
If you are going to be your groups dedicated out-of-combat-healer I suggest to use Continual Recovery over Risky Surgery as it will increase your healing output up to 6-fold (on one target) and by still a lot even with more targets.
I agree with Uberton, drop Risky Surgery for Continual Recovery (at least at level 3).
For Spell Selection, you would be better off with Fear or Ray of Enfeeblement instead of magic weapon and disrupting weapons.
Magic weapon will start to become useless since most martial types start to get their striking rune around level 3, and disrupting weapons is only useful if you plan on fighting lost of undead.
Carry a shield and a thrown weapon or crossbow.
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I would suggest gettign str to 14 and nabbing champion (Redeemer) dedication at level 2.
This gives you heavy armor proficiency and eventually you can get the awesome champion reaction for redeemers that helps you in your ''damage mitigation'' role.
Playing that right now and its quite potent.
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If you are going to focus on downtime medicine, the 'core feats' typically are:
- Assurance(Medicine) to get guaranteed results past level 1,
- Continual Recovery to treat more than once per hour, and
- Ward Medic to treat multiple characters at once.
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I agree with Ubertron_X
Your AC sucks. You have one point of dex and no armour proficiency at all.
For a rear echelon character you can get away with a point or so of AC off the front rank characters, But you can't ignore it completely, or you will go down badly to critical hits.
The fixes are:
1) go WarPriest (which hurts your spells a bit)
2) get more armour proficiency as general feats and/or build up a bit more dex. Humans can get general feats more easily. This is the best option if you are happy for your armour to be a bit behind for a few levels and you really don't want to have your class feats tied up.
3) pick up armour via an archetype feat at level 2
a) Champion Requires 14 Str and 14 Cha, but there are some more really good options here like Champions Reaction. Definitely the strongest option. Can do this from level 1 as an ancient elf
b) Sentinel Dedication no ability score requirements and probably the best option if you don't want to be a Champion.
c) some others but they have more problems like being a HellKnight....
This is what I would do:
Stats
Str +0 and Int +0
Dex +2 and Con +0
Cha +3
Wis +4
Boosts mostly go to DEX, CON, CHA, WIS
Background Dragon Scholar
Human, Versatile
Level 1
Bon Mot, Adapted cantrip (electric Arc), Domain Sun, Healing font
Level 2
Rapid Response, Continual Recovery
Level 3
Armour Proficiency (Light)
Skills
Trained
Acrobatics, Intimidation, Religion, Diplomacy, Lore Dragons
Expert Diplomacy
Make sure you take the spell Calm Emotions, in your top spell slot, almost always.
Weapon probably just a couple of daggers, as he will be happy to throw them.
Armour studded leather. Carrying a regular shield to free up one of his cantrips, is an option. Doesn't seem to suit though.
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I've had good results with a cloistered cleric by taking a Rogue dedication at level 2, which gave me light armor proficiency. And with cleric feats being a bit lackluster, I went on to take Mobility to be able to just way away from AoOs and bullies. Then I went on to take Skill Mastery to get strong skill feats (healing/intimidation/social).
Thanks for all the comments, I think ill try the champion multiclass and see if I like it, I was going for a full spellcaster back row kind of character but my AC is indeed too low.
Any equipment suggestion?
I don't really like the idea of a cloistered cleric grabbing armor prophiciency as early as possible (flavor wise)
so everything that follows is partially based on that statement
for AC I woul suggest drop the strength and go to dexterity which you always raise with stat boosts
And of course keep your travelers clothing enchanted as high as possible, you will not need much money for weapons, you are a caster after all
consider dexterity based weaponry (if at all) or alternatives for your third action (bon mot can give some nice returns)
for spells consider sanctuary (you cant be attacked as long as you dont attack)
calm emotions is also a good choice, especially if you want to follow the serenrae doctrine to avoid unneccessary fights (not technically a rule but thematically fitting)
and of course sarenrae grants you the power to BURN THE HERETICS! *cough*
I mean, some neat fire spells that should help you offensively
I don't really like the idea of a cloistered cleric grabbing armor prophiciency as early as possible (flavor wise)
so everything that follows is partially based on that statementfor AC I woul suggest drop the strength and go to dexterity which you always raise with stat boosts
And of course keep your travelers clothing enchanted as high as possible, you will not need much money for weapons, you are a caster after all
consider dexterity based weaponry (if at all) or alternatives for your third action (bon mot can give some nice returns)
Yes I aggree. But the character clearly wants to be a very strong caster with the emphasis on Charisma at +3 for those secondary benefits as a cleric and for skills. Starting with Dexterity at +3 then maybe you can do this but you are a few points of AC behind. Light armour seems to be not too much of an imposittion, and allows you to get away with an initial +2 Dex only. Soft or studded leather seems OK to me - from level 5 to level 13 you have you basic +5 AC from armour and Dex. Wheras you are getting only +4 AC until level 15.
Yeah its a bit of a compromise in power and imagery, between the over the top plate armour, or standing there exposed in your explorers clothes.
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Well let's look at armor vs no armor.
At level 1 you could at most have a Dexterity of 16. It would give you an AC of 10+3T+3D+0I=16. Compare that to anyone wearing armor who typically reaches 10+3T+(5D&I)=18. So even with the most Dex you can get, you'll still be 2 points of AC behind. In PF2, 2 points of AC is a fairly big deal. You get hit more, you get crit more, you get hit more on second and third attacks, you get hit more by mooks...
At level 5, the difference decreases to 1 because you can raise Dex to 18. If you keep going then by level 15 you could have it at 20 which would also max out explorer's clothing.
And this is assuming you're maxing out Dexterity, which means you can't be maxing out Charisma and Wisdom at the same time (since your background will boost only 2 of those). Losing out Wisdom is almost unbearable if you want to cast offensive spells. Losing out Charisma is also painful because it costs you Divine Font and also sets you back for any social skills you might want to use.
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The fixes are:
3) pick up armour via an archetype feat at level 2
a) Champion Requires 14 Str and 14 Cha, but there are some more really good options here like Champions Reaction. Definitely the strongest option. Can do this from level 1 as an ancient elf
I'm also in a similar boat and I'm interested in a Cloistered Redeemer build for PFS.
Taldan Human, Skilled Hertiage
Str 14 Dex 10 Con 12 Wis 18 Cha 14,
Background: Lastwall Survivior
Cloistered Cleric of Sarenrae or Iomedae?
Ancestry feat : Natural ambition for either Reach Spell or Healing Hands
Lvl 2 Champion Dedication.
My hope I can GM the character thru at least level one or so (probably much more).
Thoughts or suggestions going forward? Pitfalls to watch out for?
Thanks in advance
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The fixes are:
3) pick up armour via an archetype feat at level 2
a) Champion Requires 14 Str and 14 Cha, but there are some more really good options here like Champions Reaction. Definitely the strongest option. Can do this from level 1 as an ancient elf
I'm also in a similar boat and I'm interested in a Cloistered Redeemer build for PFS.
Taldan Human, Skilled Hertiage
Str 14 Dex 10 Con 12 Wis 18 Cha 14,
Background: Lastwall Survivior
Cloistered Cleric of Sarenrae or Iomedae?
Ancestry feat : Natural ambition for either Reach Spell or Healing HandsLvl 2 Champion Dedication.
My hope I can GM the character thru at least level one or so (probably much more).
Thoughts or suggestions going forward? Pitfalls to watch out for?
Thanks in advance
I've had good results with Reach Spell.
That overall looks like a solid array. Occasionally you might even want to do some melee (well, from level 2 onward). Yes, you're not as good as a martial. But you're about as good as a martial's second or third attack, and you can provide some flanking. Know your own limits, but also keep in mind even a martial has limits and can't do it all themselves.
Make heavy use of the Magic Weapon spell at low levels, either on yourself or an ally.
Prepare multiple offensive cantrips (disrupt undead, divine lance, and with reach spell even chill touch works fine).
Practice finding the right distance towards the rest of the party and the enemy - not so far behind that you can't reach them to help, not so close that you come under heavy pressure.
At level 6, you might wanna pick up the champion reaction. Redeemer might be better than Paladin because you don't have the to-hit to really leverage paladin counterattacks. Also, it requires you to stay quite close to the front lines, so it's not at all a no-brainer that you want to take this.
Raise Strength to 16 and get an Armored Kilt so you can reduce the movement penalty of heavy armor, because it's pretty severe.
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Thanks for the advice.
I intend to take Champions Reaction at 6th because I'm shocked such a powerful class feature is available and not only that but available so early.
Also thank you for the suggestion on leaning toward offensive cantrips and on this have a question on Divine Lance. I have an itch to play a Phrasmen err a Phrasmi... or how ever you pronounce a divine spell caster who is in the clergy of Pharasma (Pharasmen cleric sounds right) and want to know how essential Divine Lance is. As I understand it clerics of Phrasma can't cast Divine Lance as their deity has no qualifying aliment for the spell to work. How much of a deficient is it to not be able to target alignment weaknesses with a cantrip?
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I think it's a significant loss. In my experience the vast majority of people that you really have to fight are evil. So divine lance (good) works well on most of them.
Also, later on spells like Divine Wrath also work best if you can get them to be Good.
For a pharasmin cleric I'd try hard to pick up the Adopted Cantrip feat (human ancestry) to grab Telekinetic Projectile or Electric Arc.