Rules stacking attacks?

[NicksGurl69]

We have a level 2 first level monk, second level sorcerer with the dragonic bloodline. My question is, can he make 4 attacks the flurry of blows and claw attacks? Do they stack? It seems to me 4 attacks at level 2 is a bit over powered. Making 2 claw attacks and 2 flurry of blows? tia

[Firebug]

Does he have Feral Combat Training or another way for a natural attack to count as a monk weapon?

If not, no.

There are other ways of getting large numbers of natural attacks at low levels.

[Lelomenia]

Firebug wrote:

Does he have Feral Combat Training or another way for a natural attack to count as a monk weapon?

If not, no.

There are other ways of getting large numbers of natural attacks at low levels.

feral combat training allows you to use natural attacks as monk weapons, just as a different weapon you can use but doesn’t allow additional attacks.

[Azothath]

NicksGurl69 wrote:

We have a level 2 first level monk, second level sorcerer with the draconic bloodline. My question is, can he make 4 attacks the flurry of blows and claw attacks?

Do they stack?
It seems to me 4 attacks at level 2 is a bit over powered. Making 2 claw attacks and 2 flurry of blows? tia

Flurry & unarmed text:

Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.

At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage on the table given below.

not without some very special and very expensive stuff or a feat that allows it (not aware of any base feat in a chain that would allow it). Haste spell comes to mind.

RAW gives him an improved unarmed strike with improved damage. It hedges on the exact damage dealing body parts to "fist, elbows, knees, and feet." Magic items tend to be fist centric.

Feral Combat Training

A flurry is a full-round action so there's no time left over for secondary attacks.

see Draconic Bloodlines Interactions 10-2009 thread

see Bloodrager-Monk-Claws-Flurry 10-2018 thread

see Full Attacks and Natural Weapons 7-2013 thread

[Azothath]

the feat Feral Combat Training disallows creatures from using their natural weapons for Improved Unarmed Strike without said feat through backdoor rulestomping as 'now there's a feat for that'.

[Chell Raighn]

The most relevant bit of rules text is the last few lines of flurry of blows…

A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

So to answer the OPs question… no, they absolutely cannot stack flurry of blows with natural weapons for a total of 4 attacks at level 2.

Even if they had feral combat training, they wouldn’t get 4 attacks, as feral combat training just lets them use natural weapons as if they were monk weapons for a flurry. That means they may substitute any number of their normal attacks from the flurry for attacks with their natural weapons. Feral combat training is for the most part useless for a monk who has natural weapons until the number of attacks from flurry of blows is greater than the number of natural weapons they possess.

[Derklord]

@NicksGurl69: What Chell Raighn said is 100% correct. To make it a bit more general, anything that adds attacks with weapons already used in the full attack (e.g. Haste) works with Flurry, everything that requires using a different weapon for the additional attack does not.

There are ways to have four or even more attacks at 2nd level, but Flurry of Blows is not one of them.

Azothath wrote:

A flurry is a full-round action so there's no time left over for secondary attacks.

No, it's a full-attack action, to which you normally can add natural attacks. It's only per explicit exception that Flurry of Blows (both the core and unchained version, as well as Brawler's Flurry) don't allow this.

Azothath wrote:

the feat Feral Combat Training disallows creatures from using their natural weapons for Improved Unarmed Strike without said feat through backdoor rulestomping as 'now there's a feat for that'.

FCT does nothing the likes of that. It doesn't apply IUS to anything, or alters what IUS affects.

Even if it did, it would have nothing to do with this thread. Threads where new players/GMs inquire about basic rule interactions are not the place to complain about your pet peeve.