can items such as the ring of evasion qualify to be a prerequisite for classes and feats or do you have to have it naturally ???
Depends on the wording. Although for the RoE, it doesn't grant evasion, it only makes you act as if you had it*, and thus doesn't count for anything, not even as simple a prereq as Twist Away's.
*) Which is the same in practise, and probably even for most interactions, but not for prereqs.
ok because some player wants to use ring of evasion to access a feat
What's the feat?
The feats which require evasion describe it as 'evasion class feature' as far as I know, which is pretty explicit that a ring won't cut it. I don't know that I'd bother blocking them - they're not great - but RAW is against the player there.
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I generally allow characters to use a Belt or Headband of Ability Score +2/4/6 to qualify for feats, so I would lump it under the same argument. Loose the item, loose anything that relies on it. Maybe stick the 'must be wearing it for 24 hours' clause in.
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.
Items that increase ability scores have that specific exception.
The Ring of Evasion doesn't.
The Ring of Evasion amuses me. Like, which version of Evasion?
None. The second sentence of the ring description provides the entire text necessary for the item to function, which makes the first sentence explanatory text, and thus not rule text.
The whole 'class feature' specific requirement falls under the 'quacks like a duck' argument from game devs for me.
I totally agree that prereqs can't be handled strictest RAW (otherwise, we end up with neither Druid or Wizard being able to take Boon Companion or Evolved Familiar because their class features aren't named "animal companion" or "familiar"). Still, there're so many situations where an "acts like" ability is not supposed to allow treating it for prereqs that I can't say that I believe that RoE is supposed to fulfull the prereq of e.g. Twist Away.
Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.Items that increase ability scores have that specific exception.
The Ring of Evasion doesn't.
Irrelevant, because nothing says prereqs require permanent fulfillment.
Irrelevant, because nothing says prereqs require permanent fulfillment.Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.Items that increase ability scores have that specific exception.
The Ring of Evasion doesn't.
I don't have the rules quote handy, but yeah they do.
Somewhere written in the rules I'm fairly certain that it says if you no longer meet the prerequisites that you lose access until you can fulfill them again.
Somewhere written in the rules I'm fairly certain that it says if you no longer meet the prerequisites that you lose access until you can fulfill them again.
That is indeed in the rules, but it doesn't in any way invalidate what I said. The rules don't say that you need permanent features to fulfil prereqs, they only say that you need to fulfill them when taking the feat, and when using it.
Somewhere written in the rules I'm fairly certain that it says if you no longer meet the prerequisites that you lose access until you can fulfill them again.That is indeed in the rules, but it doesn't in any way invalidate what I said. The rules don't say that you need permanent features to fulfil prereqs, they only say that you need to fulfill them when taking the feat, and when using it.
So your argument is you don't lose the feat when you don't meet the prerequisites, but that you can't use it?
Or that the ring of evasion couldn't be used in the first place to fulfill the requirement.
I guess I am confused by the context of your statement.
I guess I am confused by the context of your statement.
The full ruletext on feat prereqs is this: "Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
A character can’t use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables." (CRB pg. 112)That's it. There is no mention that temporary ability score bonuses don't count*, or that you have to permanently have the feature. The feat prereqs check what the character currently has, they don't check the how and why.
As I've said, RoE doesn't actually grant evasion, so does not actually help. But for example Talons of Leng make a wearer qualify for Rending Claws.
*) That used to be assumed to be the case by working backwards from the "Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours.", but was never actually said, and this FAQ cleared it up.
I guess I am confused by the context of your statement.The full ruletext on feat prereqs is this: "Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
A character can’t use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables." (CRB pg. 112)That's it. There is no mention that temporary ability score bonuses don't count*, or that you have to permanently have the feature. The feat prereqs check what the character currently has, they don't check the how and why.
As I've said, RoE doesn't actually grant evasion, so does not actually help. But for example Talons of Leng make a wearer qualify for Rending Claws.
*) That used to be assumed to be the case by working backwards from the "Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours.", but was never actually said, and this FAQ cleared it up.
I think I understand what you're intending and agree with you.
But your statement that I responded to, very much sounded like you were saying that you could use the feat if you didn't meet the requirements, as long as you met them at the time you took it.
I realize now that is not what you meant, but that is how I interpreted it when I read the statement.