You're about to fight your nemesis. Your whole plot arc has been building up to this moment. You roll initiative, ready yourself for your big moment, and then look on in horror as the party fighter accidentally crits and kills the big bad (and your character development) before you can even act.
Spotlight Moments are hard to pull off. When the "wrong character" gets that dramatic kill, it can feel like the dice have undercut all your carefully constructed narrative momentum.
My question for the board: how do you structure these special moments so that this mess doesn't happen? Is it even possible?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As a player, I don't wrap my character's identity and purpose around being the one to kill the BBEG. That path leads to utter disappointment, regret, and an open invitation to become the very thing that you swore to defeat. Being part of the group to take the BBEG out is sufficient. However, should the character's development become stalled or a pivotal moment shifts that development, I do not attempt to correct its course. The character is a living, breathing personality (in my mind at least) and will have to adapt as a real person would. I created them for a purpose, but that purpose can, and often does, change. And they with it.
As a GM, I don't use these kinds of spotlight moments. For the very same reason. Outside of heavy-handed manipulation, they almost never work out (in my experience).
As a GM, when there's a BBEG that a particular PC is associated with, that BBEG would have "Flexible HP", so even if the fighter does get a big huge one-shot crit, the BBEG is still going to survive long enough for the actual PC to get his shots in.
And if the damage is "Too High for the BBEG to believably survive", then that thing he just one-shot either just became 1) an Illusion or 2) one of the BBEG's mooks with a Greater Hat of Disguise or Alter Self spell.
Imagine if you were Cloud for a moment; it would be rather frustrating to go through 8 months of a campaign chasing down your Sephiroth-BBEG and then BAM!, Barret ninjas the kill shot in one hit. This is shapoopy.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My question for the board: how do you structure these special moments so that this mess doesn't happen? Is it even possible?
It's Pathfinder, so the answer is "Yes".
Step 1: Figure out it's the fight against your nemesis.
Step 2: Apply this feat during combat, as soon as you can. Those "underpowered" fighters can be quick at killing. Whistle innocently (optional).
Step 3: If the fighter player attempts to roll a Will save, YELL at them (capital letters for good reason).
Step 4: Let the heal bot, err, finely divinely powered camerade cast CLW on the nemesis.
Step 5: Look the nemesis into the eyes, give them a moment to realize their incoming doom.
Step 6: Crush their head, cut it off, burn it in fire, whatever, everything is fine if it's gory. If multiple heads, repeat and probably vary.
Step 7: Let everyone hear your warcry!
Step 8: Find a new purpose in life, hopefully filling the gap the absence of your nemesis leaves.
As a GM, when there's a BBEG that a particular PC is associated with, that BBEG would have "Flexible HP", so even if the fighter does get a big huge one-shot crit, the BBEG is still going to survive long enough for the actual PC to get his shots in.
I quite like the phrasing here. "Flexible HP" is such a narrative concept... But you could never print that as a rule. It seems like something a GM has to discover for themselves.
As a GM, when there's a BBEG that a particular PC is associated with, that BBEG would have "Flexible HP", so even if the fighter does get a big huge one-shot crit, the BBEG is still going to survive long enough for the actual PC to get his shots in.I quite like the phrasing here. "Flexible HP" is such a narrative concept... But you could never print that as a rule. It seems like something a GM has to discover for themselves.
Yeah, basically I write down that the BBEG has 80HP in my notes, and it will stay 80HP but only as long as the MVP PC gets some shots in. If the fighter comes up before the MVP PC gets involved and insta-gibs the BBEG with a string of crits for 85dmg, then I "flex" his HP out to 120HP, and again, it will stay 120HP but only as long as the MVP PC gets some shots in. And maybe flex it one more time to 150HP if necessary. If the MVP PC still hasn't gotten involved by now and 150HP is crossed, the BBEG is probably choking on his own blood at this point, so that's when the BBEG just learned how to Dimension Door and he auto-passes his Conc Check and Teleports to the MVP PC to do something horrible to him before he dies.
This situation is pretty rare though. Usually the PC will have gotten involved before any insta-gibbing can happen. And as a GM, it's my burden to design the encounter in such a way so that he can't get insta-gibbed anyway, such as having difficult terrain, anti-magic fields, minions protecting the BBEG, etc.
The point is: involve the MVP PC no matter what, even to the point of breaking the rules to do it.
Sounds like bad game design to me. In no way should a particular character's story arc be dependent on them killing baddy x. Pathfinder is a team game and should, during the unfolding of the campaign, the party develop a nemesis then the party can have a spotlight moment. If it transpires that the climactic battle is resolved with a lucky crit then the party can bask in the sudden and unexpected release of tension. Meanwhile the GM can (and should) ask for advice on encounter design so the same thing doesn't happen again.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think Hugo Rune and Mark Hoover 330 are talking about playing AP's while I'm talking about Homebrew adventures. As for AP's, I agree with you both, PC's should not have backstories that influence the AP. But for Homebrew settings, they absolutely should.
In my Homebrew settings, my PC's will ALWAYS have something going on that directly affects the story-- not only will I have my own "Over-arching Story" that I've "flexibly" written out, but I also place a whole bunch of villains and side quest story hooks out on the map that are also not directly associated with the PC's (to make the world feel organic, alive, and visceral), and if the players do not decide to take care of any of these villains/events in a reasonable time, then the problem gets bigger and affect a wider influence. Furthermore, each PC is going to have a bunch of their own Villains, events, friends and family members from their backstory that will interject into the story "at the worst possible time". <--- and as the DM I get to have a bit of fun with this.
One of my buddies created this as a Recipe for Character-creation, and basically you choose a minimum of 1 in each of the three columns (ore more than 1). I've been using it for years and it produces some very cool characters.
Session Zero or before:
• Backstory: A Player’s backstory consists of at least three variables. These are just some examples. There are many more. Many of these may overlap. This is not a problem, but a solidification of how the player wants to interact with the world.
o Unresolved Mystery / Occurrence with the Character
A murder in the family
Someone stole a family heirloom
Born under an auspicious sign
Curse
Strange voices telling you to do things as a child
Visions
Prophecy / Chosen one
Hurt while young
o Character has an Obligation / Duty
Owes money / favors
Organization the player is a part of
Deity
Job / Profession
Code / Honor
Mentor / Person the player respects/fears
Lord / Lady
Family / Loved one
o What Motivates your Character
Riches
Fame
Power
Resolution(Unresolved mystery)
Reenacting/imitating a famous character
Free slaves
Find X person/Family member
Destroy / Save organization
One last job
o Secret Objective? (Not needed. More suited to an evil or intrigue based campaign)
Undermine other player/s
Take over the world / region / organization
Spy / Send information back to actual allies
Steal Artifact / Prototype / McGuffin
Again, any of these may overlap.
Take all of these things from all players involved and find ways to bring them together that seem organic. Then use the obligations and motivations to make fun encounters and to steer the player towards more fun or danger. Ultimately the players could possibly complete their mystery / occurrence as part of resolving the main story arch.
Extra advice
Never try to make a player’s character what you think it should be or speak as if it is like you think he should be. Always refer to a character as the player sees him. Eg: If someone is playing a monk with the vow of poverty, do not react to them with NPCs as a bum if they prefer to appear to be clean but humble servants in plain robes. Also do not try to give a character items to make them how you see them, but find items or make them up to enhance how a player has been playing his character.
======================================================
======================================================
======================================================
"Players always jack things up. It is much harder to make epic stories for players that will inevitably jack them up than it is to make epic stories for the villains that the player are meant to jack up." ~Gregor
^---- So with this in mind, I do not write out the story. I write villains and place them everywhere on the map and then write out their goals and idiosyncrasies. The PC's will eventually find them and jack them up.