Alter Self and Powerful Change


Rules Questions


I understand that size bonuses don't stack, but in the case of a Brown-Fur Transmuter Arcanist, it states:

Powerful Change (Su):

At 3rd level, the brown-fur transmuter learns to harness the power of her magic to empower her transmutations. Whenever the brown-fur transmuter casts a transmutation spell using one of her arcanist spell slots, she can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a free action to bolster the spell. If the spell grants a bonus to an ability score, the bonus then increases by 2. If it grants a bonus to more than one ability score, only one of the ability scores gains this bonus. The brown-fur transmuter cannot expend more than 1 point from her arcane reservoir in this way.

This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

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Let's say you are casting a spell, such as:

Alter Self:
School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 2, bard 2, magus 2, psychic 2, shaman 2, sorcerer/wizard 2, summoner/unchained summoner 2, witch 2

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)

EFFECT

Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 min./level (D)

DESCRIPTION

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet.

Small creature: If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity.

Medium creature: If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength.

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Would you gain the +2 size bonus to dex in this case of taking the form of a small creature. Then, by utilizing 1 point from your pool, because it is a transmutation spell, empower the spell, you get +2 addition untyped bonus to Dex?

Also, because the spell is making you small, by polymorph rules, you have a -2 str, +1 attack/Ac due to size, but in the case of this spell, the normal effect of becoming small (+2 dex size bonus) won't stack, correct?

Silver Crusade

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"If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell."

alter self does not lower strength unless it specifies it does.

you gain an additional +2 size bonus to dex (for a total of +4)


By polymorph rules the only ability scores to change are those noted, assuming your starting size is small or medium. If your starting size is medium then becoming small gives you +1 Atk/AC, -1 CMB in addition to the changes noted in the spell.

But yes a brown fur transmuter casting alter self to become a gnome (and spending an arcane reservoir point) gets +4 Dex.


Thank you for the clarification


avr wrote:

By polymorph rules the only ability scores to change are those noted, assuming your starting size is small or medium. If your starting size is medium then becoming small gives you +1 Atk/AC, -1 CMB in addition to the changes noted in the spell.

But yes a brown fur transmuter casting alter self to become a gnome (and spending an arcane reservoir point) gets +4 Dex.

Actually you do not need to change size to get the stat benefit. A gnome changing into a goblin still gets the bonus to dex and a human changing into an elf still gets the bonus to str.


SmooshieBanana wrote:
by polymorph rules, you have a -2 str

I'm kinda curious here... where did you get this from?

thorin001 wrote:
A gnome changing into a goblin still gets the bonus to dex

A gnome could use Alter Self and take the form of a gnome, and would still get the dex bonus!


Derklord wrote:
SmooshieBanana wrote:
by polymorph rules, you have a -2 str

I'm kinda curious here... where did you get this from?

thorin001 wrote:
A gnome changing into a goblin still gets the bonus to dex
A gnome could use Alter Self and take the form of a gnome, and would still get the dex bonus!

Yup. I originally planned to use that example, but I thought it might confuse someone.

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