The Human Favored Class Bonus for Warpriest and the Elf FC Bonus for Magus both entitle them to earn what is the equivalent of a bonus feat (Arcana in the Magi case)
Gain 1/6 of a new bonus combat feat.
The magus gains +⅙ of a new magus arcana.
It is my understanding that you cannot start working towards these until you have earned them. Level 3 in both classes case (Earning the Bonus Feat/Arcana at level 8)
I am looking for that rule, can someone help me locate it or if I am wrong provide me with the evidence to suggest otherwise.
Huh, never even considered, honestly.
I have literally let it happen at six, not six after the first bonus feat, Talent, Arcana, or whatever... no evidence to back up if that is in any way correct, though.
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OK. Found it, and it looks like you CAN take the 1/6 additional arcana or additional feat FCB. It looks like it's one of those notrattas that comes about when the design team says "It's clear to us so it doesn't need an FAQ." Unfortunately that means the explicit clarification ends up buried in a messageboard thread somewhere.
Related Point: Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?
No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.
Which is where "you can't take the FCB until you have the feature" came from. But much later in the thread, designer Mark Seifter made another clarification:
If we did a FAQ, it'd be possible to separate out gaining a fraction of a new thing you don't have any of yet from modifying something you don't have.
For instance, with this hypothetical FAQ, gaining 1/6th of a revelation and then using that to at level 7 pick up a revelation that requires level 7 would be fine, but giving yourself bonuses preemptively with the revelation you don't have yet wouldn't.
His example isn't great - and refers to a FAQ that was never published - but it seems that you CAN take an FCB to get 1/6 of a new arcana or new feat even if you don't have the arcana class feature yet. But you couldn't choose one that modifies an arcana (such as the dwarf FCB to increase the number of uses of a specific arcana).
Cool thanks.
I've always played it that way (because it doesn't really break anything), but I assumed we were house-ruling it.
Nice to know that the ... official* rule actually supports it.
Also in the Warpriest's case at least, you didn't trade away your bonus feat class ability, you just traded away the feats gained at X level. Your 1/6lvl bonus feat still follows all the rules for normal Warpriest (read Fighter) bonus feats even if you don't get any because of an archetype.
I think the only time a 1/6 of a new feat/arcana/talent FCB would be “disallowed” prior to gaining the class feature is if you either A: do not get the class feature any more because of an archetype or B: would gain the first Extra before gaining the first original (most likely because of an archetype), at which point the FCB should only be delayed access until it would complete at or after the feature is gained.
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OK. Found it, and it looks like you CAN take the 1/6 additional arcana or additional feat FCB. It looks like it's one of those notrattas that comes about when the design team says "It's clear to us so it doesn't need an FAQ." Unfortunately that means the explicit clarification ends up buried in a messageboard thread somewhere.
Related Point: Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?
No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.Which is where "you can't take the FCB until you have the feature" came from. But much later in the thread, designer Mark Seifter made another clarification:
His example isn't great - and refers to a FAQ that was never published - but it seems that you CAN take an FCB to get 1/6 of a new arcana or new feat even if you don't have the arcana class...If we did a FAQ, it'd be possible to separate out gaining a fraction of a new thing you don't have any of yet from modifying something you don't have.
For instance, with this hypothetical FAQ, gaining 1/6th of a revelation and then using that to at level 7 pick up a revelation that requires level 7 would be fine, but giving yourself bonuses preemptively with the revelation you don't have yet wouldn't.
Note that the specific example given in the Seifter clarification is a case where get the specific class feature (Revelations) at level one: He just seems to be clarifying that if you spend your FCBs at levels 2-7 to get an additional revelation slot, you can use that slot on any revelation you qualify for at that point (and that you aren't limited to revelations you were qualified for at level 2).
Warpriest and Magus characters don't get their relevant class features until level 3, so per the Compton post, you can not spend FCBs on them at levels 1 & 2.
I mean. It looks like that's one way to interpret it, but that by no means is the only way. I don't see anything in that text that backs up what you're claiming, really.
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There's a reason I said "Mark's example isn't great." Using arcana as a class feature example would have been much more clear.
However, he does say they could "separate out gaining a fraction of a new thing you don't have any of yet from modifying something you don't have" then goes on to indicate a fraction of a thing (you don't have yet) would be OK.
Compton's post is specifically referring to FCBs that raise your effective level for the effects of a revelation you have already taken.
Gaining a bonus feat or arcana isn't increasing the effective level of an ability. It's not increasing the amount of a bonus either. It's a different thing.
I think the only time a 1/6 of a new feat/arcana/talent FCB would be “disallowed” prior to gaining the class feature is if you either A: do not get the class feature any more because of an archetype or B: would gain the first Extra before gaining the first original (most likely because of an archetype), at which point the FCB should only be delayed access until it would complete at or after the feature is gained.
It would be wasted, as you cannot take the last fraction before you have the feature in question. But officially, the thing that Mark Seifter described was never done, so it would be up to the GM to work out the details of this as a house rule in non-PFS games.