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I don’t expect much from Paizo when it comes to errata or clarifications these days. I don’t really see anything in the rules that would require anything other than Crafting and a tool kit to transfer rules from stone to weapon, from weapon to weapon, or from even weapon to stone (assuming the stone already exists). Creation of a stone from scratch suitable to hold a rune I would probably require the feat, though I imagine it is fairly rare to move a rune TO a stone unless you planned on selling it separate from the weapon it was currently on.
Though, I can also see a GM ruling that the feat is required to move runes if you consider moving a rune to a weapon to be “creating” a +# weapon. It’s a bit thin, but if my GM ruled it that way it wouldn’t argue too much about it. If you’re gonna act like a blacksmith, you probably should have the relevant feats to do so. YMMV
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To transfer runes? No, you don't need the formula or feat as far as I know. You don't even need the formula of the rune to craft it. The only thing you would need Magical Crafting for are to make runestones, or to make the runes themselves.
RAW you absolutely do. There is no exception in the runes section.
You need
- magical crafting feat
- crafting proficiency tier for the item level
- 5% of the runes value in materials upfront
- crafting station as determined by the GM
- formula for the rune (this can ofcourse be obtained through reverse engineering the formula or the inventor feat, as well as having it in your book already)
- 1 day of downtime
RAI they may have planned it to be easier than this, but without paizo's say so this is all we have to go on.
No specifics override the generals of the craft activity other than the price and time taken.
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Is anyone going to provide rules quotes to support their stances, or do I need to go looking at online fact checkers to see if this is fake news?
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Is anyone going to provide rules quotes to support their stances, or do I need to go looking at online fact checkers to see if this is fake news?
Sure, why not.
Ok, so, Transferring Runes works as follows:
You can transfer runes between one item and another, including a runestone. This also uses the Craft activity. This lets you either move one rune from one item to another or swap a rune on one item with a rune on the other item. To swap, the runes must be of the same form. (fundamental or property)
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You'll note how it is self-referential to full Etching Process rules which I'll include here as well.
The Etching Process
Etching a rune on an item follows the same process as using the Craft activity to make an item. You must have the formula for the rune, the item you’re adding the rune to must be in your possession throughout the etching process, and you must meet any special Craft Requirements of the rune. The rune has no effect until you complete the Craft activity. You can etch only one rune at a time.
Etching a rune on an item follows the same process as using the Craft activity to make an item.
Ok so, we see that Transferring Runes is worded in a way to indicate that it references the way the original Etching Process works and they both use the Crafting Activity, so, the next part here is to look at the Activity in question.
Craft
You can make an item from raw materials. You need the Alchemical Crafting skill feat to create alchemical items, the Magical Crafting skill feat to create magic items, and the Snare Crafting feat to create snares.
To Craft an item, you must meet the following requirements:
The item is your level or lower. An item that doesn't list a level is level 0. If the item is 9th level or higher, you must be a master in Crafting, and if it's 16th or higher, you must be legendary.
You have the formula for the item; see Getting Formulas for more information.
You have an appropriate set of tools and, in many cases, a workshop. For example, you need access to a smithy to forge a metal shield.
You must supply raw materials worth at least half the item's Price. You always expend at least that amount of raw materials when you Craft successfully. If you're in a settlement, you can usually spend currency to get the amount of raw materials you need, except in the case of rarer precious materials.
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Taken together this tells us that you use the normal Craft Activity which has specific guidelines on what you need with the exception of the listed changes to the price and time that this takes. The rules for Transferring Runes are utterly silent on the topic of Formulas and we must assume that this means that you follow the normal rules for the Craft Activity itself.
There is one little snag here in that it doesn't explicitly note that you need to meet all other normal requirements of the Craft Activity in the Transferring Runes rules but the fact that it doesn't include an exception for these things (while it DOES offer exceptions to other parts of the Craft Activity such as cost and time) such as Formula and Level Requirement tells me that we are meant to follow the general rule because they did not include a specific rule that would enable a PC to ignore the requirements, formula, etc. To assert otherwise would end up meaning that people without the Magical Crafting Feat could Etch Runes which is almost certainly not what was intended as well as... well many other cascading effects across the game wherever one section refers to some rule that's used in one capacity or another but it fails to quote the entire sub-system it's referencing.
Thank you for the follow up. You're probably right, but I'm still not solidly convinced that etching a rune and transferring a rune are the same thing.
Etching seems to imply the initial creation of the rune whereas transferring the rune may or may not involve any etching process (in a land of magic transferring etched runes might well be as easy transferring stickers for those who know how to do it).
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I assume (uh oh) that since the etching process and the transferring of runes have their own dedicated paragraph/s that they are distinct activities and therefore have distinct requirements. The etching process describes many more requirements, such as formula, than transferring. I assume (uh oh, again) that is by design and the only requirements for transferring are listed in that specific section. It mentions nothing about formula, or feats, etc. just the cost and how to determine the DC of the crafting check. So, IMO the requirements of transferring are minimal. YMMV
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I assume (uh oh) that since the etching process and the transferring of runes have their own dedicated paragraph/s that they are distinct activities and therefore have distinct requirements. The etching process describes many more requirements, such as formula, than transferring. I assume (uh oh, again) that is by design and the only requirements for transferring are listed in that specific section. It mentions nothing about formula, or feats, etc. just the cost and how to determine the DC of the crafting check. So, IMO the requirements of transferring are minimal. YMMV
Thats how our group is running it too. Not because of RAW or not to RAW, but because otherwise (and despite reverse engineering for the formula being a thing) most equipment found during early adventuring would have been useless for the group.
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The rules for transferring on page 580 just say that transferring uses the Craft activity. Looking at that on page 244 it seems you need to satisfy all the usual requirements unless the rune transfer rules override those;
- You need the Magical Crafter feat.
- You have to be high enough level. If you find a rune of a level higher than yourself, which isn't unusual with how the treasure system is designed, you'll have to wait to move it.
- For runes of level 9+/16+ you have to be Master or Legendary at Crafting, respectively.
- You have to have the formula.
- You need tools and maybe a workshop.
- You need to supply raw materials worth at least half the price.
- If the rune itself has creation requirements, you probably have to meet those too.
What's certainly different, as far as I can tell:
- It takes only 1 day to "get started" instead of the usual 4 (as per page 480).
- The price is only 10% of the rune, or free in the case of a runestone.
- If swapping two runes, use the highest item level to set the DC for the swap.
I'm not really a fan of these rules. Especially compared to the rules for Etching which are quite explicit about the need for runes and special craft requirements, I'm not sure that was really intended here. I would personally be inclined to relax at least these requirements:
- Having a formula (you're not making this thing from scratch)
- Meeting special crafting requirements (someone else already supplied these)
I do think you should keep the character level, minimum proficiency in Crafting, and Magical Crafting feat requirements. Mainly because you explicitly need the Crafting skill check to perform the transfer.
I think this is a good middle ground because:
- You don't have to buy formulas for something you're never going to make a second one of
- It preserves the idea that the shiny new magic weapon you found is a thing on its own, and if you found an above-level one you have to use it for a bit as-is before being able to swap the runes onto your favorite weapon
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So the Craft ability says that "You need...the Magical Crafting skill feat to create magic items,"
Transferring a Rune is not "creating" anything, just transferring an already created magical effect from one item to another. Etching specifically calls out the need for a formula, whereas transferring does not.
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So the Craft ability says that "You need...the Magical Crafting skill feat to create magic items,"
Transferring a Rune is not "creating" anything, just transferring an already created magical effect from one item to another. Etching specifically calls out the need for a formula, whereas transferring does not.
Yeah, that's true but using this logic you would arrive at the conclusion that you do NOT need the Magical Crafting Feat to Etch Runes since it doesn't state in that section that you DO need it even though it does mention some of the other requirements such as the Formula. If this is followed then you'd be saying the lack of including the requirement in the Etching Process rules overrides the general rules in the Craft Activity.
The text talking about what you need to be present in the Etching Process is reminder text and is not comprehensive and you must refer to the Craft Activity to get a full grasp of how to handle it and by extension, you do the same thing with Transferring Runes, you refer to the full Craft Activity rules and apply any specific rules that are printed to override the rest of the guidelines printed in that Craft Activity. The LACK of rules in that section does not mean you can bypass the normal requirements for the process.
I personally don't like that it is just as restrictive to Transfer Runes as it is to Etch them in the first place but this is the Rules forum and the RAW on this is quite clear on the matter so any deviation from this would, IMO, be Rule 0 territory which, again, has no bearing on this section of the Forum since it reduces all discussion down to "Do whatever you want as the GM."
The long and short of my position is this: If you have some activity that fails to mention requirements for it (Transferring Runes) but points (very specifically) to another system (Craft Activity) that DOES have requirements, then that is NOT a pass to ignore the general requirements. The only exceptions that can be granted to it must be written specifically to trump the general rule, especially if it's pointing to the general rule and then expanding on what exceptions you DO make that differ from it such as the time and coin costs which are listed as exceptions to the general rules in the Transferring Runes section.
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Yeah, that's true but using this logic you would arrive at the conclusion that you do NOT need the Magical Crafting Feat to Etch Runes since it doesn't state in that section that you DO need it even though it does mention some of the other requirements such as the Formula.
Not really, the general rule says you need magical crafting to create something (like a rune).
But you're explicitly not creating anything when you transfer a rune.
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Yeah, that's true but using this logic you would arrive at the conclusion that you do NOT need the Magical Crafting Feat to Etch Runes since it doesn't state in that section that you DO need it even though it does mention some of the other requirements such as the Formula.Not really, the general rule says you need magical crafting to create something (like a rune).
But you're explicitly not creating anything when you transfer a rune.
Yeah, that's incorrect, you are creating something, in fact you're creating two things. You're taking Raw Materials (The original Magic Weapon/Armor and the destination Weapon/Armor), spending some time and coin (As outlined in the Transferring Runes rules because it deviates from the general rule), using the Craft Activity and creating two brand new Items (the original Weapon/Armor minus the Rune and a Weapon/Armor that has the Rune on it) which fundamentally alters the equipment stats and usually their Item Level.
----------Example: Transfer +1 Potency Rune from +1 Dagger to a Shortsword
Input: Time, Coin, +1 Dagger, Shortsword
Output: Dagger, +1 Shortsword
Regardless, it's pointing to the Craft Activity itself which is the set of rules you follow, if you weren't actually Crafting/Creating in the first place it wouldn't point there at all.
You can transfer runes between one item and another, including a runestone. This also uses the Craft activity. This lets you either move one rune from one item to another or swap a rune on one item with a rune on the other item. To swap, the runes must be of the same form (fundamental or property).
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Yeah, that's incorrect, you are creating something
No you're not. You're transferring an already existing rune onto an already existing item. That's literally the whole point of the transferring rune entry. If it was meant to be identical to etching it wouldn't need to have its own entry.
I mean obviously you can run it however you want at your own tables, but 'strict RAW' was the phrase being tossed around here, so if we're talking about that we can't ignore that aspect of transferring.
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Hurray, I think we may have discovered the successor to the Battle Medicine/Healer's Tools/Hands debate.
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I agree that the rules are ambiguous and that there are multiple legitimate ways to read the Rune Transfer section (hence the ask for errata).
All that I am saying is that both readings have problems. On the side of needing Magical Crafting, transfer refers to the Craft action which explicitly lists the feat as a requirement. On the side of not needing it, you aren't "creating anything."
It's just like how Etching ALSO doesn't say that you explicitly need Magical Crafting either.
It's not "Rule Zero" to say that a specific reading doesn't make sense so it should be ignored in favor of another. It is actually RAW to say that problematic reading or unintentional side effects should be ignored in favor of a smoother running game.
For transferring to to have all the same requirements of etching completely eliminates the need for having separate rules for etch vs. transfer in the first place. It's clear that the point of the transfer rules is to make it so you don't have to choose between your preferred weapon and the nice one you just found, therefore the reading that actually makes that function is clearly the correct one. Truthfully, I think that the reference to the "crafting activity" is merely them trying to save word count from needing to say "this is a downtime activity that requires you to make a crafting check and the your level must be at least equal to the level of the rune you are transferring."
Lets look at the Crafting activity. You need:
1) to be at least the same level as the item; No problems here
2) you need the item formula; well the Rune itself is effectively its own formula
3) You must have the appropriate tools; the rune and weapons
4) You must supply the raw materials; the source weapon and the destination weapon, plus the rune itself
Nothing here that says you need a feat, as again, you aren't "creating" anything, you are merely moving a rune from one location to another.
like in the Shifting Rune discussions which proved me correct so I'm done here.
I don't recall anything being proven in the shifting threads. Did I miss errata/FAQ on the Shifting Rune?
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like in the Shifting Rune discussions which proved me correct so I'm done here.I don't recall anything being proven in the shifting threads. Did I miss errata/FAQ on the Shifting Rune?Shifting magic staves is no go per errata.
Odd in a way to gloat about being right all along and then point to a document of changes to the game as evidence.
It was a document of both changes and clarifications, which indeed were "right all along".
That said, being right about one reading of the rules does not magically gives the perfect knowledge of how other rules should be read.
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Shifting magic staves is no go per errata.
Ah, ok. There are debates on if you can use shifting to change the size of items [ie, medium to large] so that's what came to mind. Shifting magic staves errata is magic staff errata* in my mind and not a shifting errata so it didn't make the connection.
*[the rune didn't change, it was the staff that got a limitation. In fact, shifting is never mentioned anywhere in the errata.]
That said, being right about one reading of the rules does not magically gives the perfect knowledge of how other rules should be read.
Yep. I don't know that anyone has much of a track record since we've only had 2 errata to date. I too had some right guesses on what was in the errata too but I don't see it meaning much at this point.
Yeah, that's incorrect, you are creating somethingNo you're not. You're transferring an already existing rune onto an already existing item. That's literally the whole point of the transferring rune entry. If it was meant to be identical to etching it wouldn't need to have its own entry.
I mean obviously you can run it however you want at your own tables, but 'strict RAW' was the phrase being tossed around here, so if we're talking about that we can't ignore that aspect of transferring.
It's not about creation, it's about having the skill(s) to do the activity which involves tasks identically used with creation. So yes, transferring isn't creation, but to suggest that it doesn't require any form of skill check or feats is equally as absurd.
It does require a skill check. I don't think anyone has said anything to the effect that it doesn't.It's not about creation, it's about having the skill(s) to do the activity which involves tasks identically used with creation. So yes, transferring isn't creation, but to suggest that it doesn't require any form of skill check or feats is equally as absurd.Yeah, that's incorrect, you are creating somethingNo you're not. You're transferring an already existing rune onto an already existing item. That's literally the whole point of the transferring rune entry. If it was meant to be identical to etching it wouldn't need to have its own entry.
I mean obviously you can run it however you want at your own tables, but 'strict RAW' was the phrase being tossed around here, so if we're talking about that we can't ignore that aspect of transferring.
If you aren't crafting anything, then why do you need to make a skill check with a Craft skill to do it? Makes no sense to me to suggest that the things you need which make the item aren't required to transfer the effects of said item to another item or runestone. I mean, they have literally said that you don't need a feat dealing with a subset of crafting because you aren't making them, even though you are still dealing with the adjustment of magic items to begin with. Which, by the way, is no different than taking a non-medical dagger and having a +1 potency rune from a runestone etched onto it. So, if we take a mundane item and then make it magical by transferring a rune onto it, do we still not need magical crafting when we are, in fact, making a weapon magical?
This is like saying intimidation is not a hostile action because I'm not using an attack roll. NPCs will not like it, and if they would rather fight than cooperate, initiative will be rolled by that point.
Because it explicitly says so? "The DC of the Crafting check to transfer a rune is determined by the item level of the rune being transferred,"If you aren't crafting anything, then why do you need to make a skill check with a Craft skill to do it?It does require a skill check. I don't think anyone has said anything to the effect that it doesn't.It's not about creation, it's about having the skill(s) to do the activity which involves tasks identically used with creation. So yes, transferring isn't creation, but to suggest that it doesn't require any form of skill check or feats is equally as absurd.Yeah, that's incorrect, you are creating somethingNo you're not. You're transferring an already existing rune onto an already existing item. That's literally the whole point of the transferring rune entry. If it was meant to be identical to etching it wouldn't need to have its own entry.
I mean obviously you can run it however you want at your own tables, but 'strict RAW' was the phrase being tossed around here, so if we're talking about that we can't ignore that aspect of transferring.
But you aren't making anything, so you aren't crafting anything, therefore no need to magically craft anything.
That's literally their argument.
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You need to make a Craft check and beat the DC.
You need to pay 10% of the rune's price (note that it doesn't say this is in raw materials).
You need to spend 1 day.
You can reduce the price with additional days.
That's not really disputable. It's explicitly stated in the rules for transferring runes.
Pretty sure that's it. That's all you need. You don't need the Magical Crafting feat, a specific character level, a specific Craft level of training, or the formula to transfer runes.
I don't believe that the references to using "the Craft activity" are to apply additional restrictions, but to inform you how it should interact with other rules (such as the downtime rules, for example).
Note also, that the rune transfer example shown in the book makes no mention of needing the feat, formula, or anything of the sort.
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You need to make a Craft check and beat the DC.
You need to pay 10% of the rune's price (note that it doesn't say this is in raw materials).
You need to spend 1 day.
You can reduce the price with additional days.That's not really disputable. It's explicitly stated in the rules for transferring runes.
Pretty sure that's it. That's all you need. You don't need the Magical Crafting feat, a specific character level, a specific Craft level of training, or the formula to transfer runes.
I don't believe that the references to using "the Craft activity" are to apply additional restrictions, but to inform you how it should interact with other rules (such as the downtime rules, for example).
Note also, that the rune transfer example shown in the book makes no mention of needing the feat, formula, or anything of the sort.
So your argument is that Etching Runes also doesn't require the Magical Crafting feat? This is the conclusion you must arrive at using this logic because the Etching Process Rules don't mention the feat either... just like the Transferring Runes section.
If that's not your position then you're selectively reading the rules to mean what you want it to say. Again, it points you to the general rules and defines the exceptions to them, otherwise, you must follow the guidelines printed in the Activity it tells you that you're using.
Using the example text also does not support your argument either because the example similarly doesn't include any mention of the time, crafting check, or cost to achieve the transfer as well, meaning that you cannot use this as an example of a comprehensive description of what is needed or how it's accomplished.
So your argument is that Etching Runes also doesn't require the Magical Crafting feat? This is the conclusion you must arrive at using this logic because the Etching Process Rules don't mention the feat either... just like the Transferring Runes section.
That is correct. I believe I was quite clear in stating that I don't think you need the Magical Crafting feat to transfer runes.
If that's not your position then you're selectively reading the rules to mean what you want it to say. Again, it points you to the general rules and defines the exceptions to them, otherwise, you must follow the guidelines printed in the Activity it tells you that you're using.
You're certainly free to believe that. Posters have pointed to where it references the Craft rules, but not the Magical Crafting feat. The idea that you must have the Magical Crafting feat to perform an activity that has nothing to do with crafting magical items seems (to me at least) to be a bit of a reach. I suppose it is no more or less supported by the RAW than my own interpretation of the rules, so we may just need to agree to disagree.
Using the example text also does not support your argument either because the example similarly doesn't include any mention of the time, crafting check, or cost to achieve the transfer as well, meaning that you cannot use this as an example of a comprehensive description of what is needed or how it's accomplished.
It doesn't need to, as it is explicitly stated in the transference rules, unlike the assertion of needing the Magical Crafting feat.
If that's not your position then you're selectively reading the rules to mean what you want it to say. Again, it points you to the general rules and defines the exceptions to them, otherwise, you must follow the guidelines printed in the Activity it tells you that you're using.
Runes have formulas and create an end product: transferring require no formula and produce nothing [you're just moving someone else's work]. To craft a rune "you must meet any special Craft Requirements of the rune", like the Magical Crafting feat feat: transferring doesn't say that. Nothing stops someone that's is 1st level from transferring a Winged (Greater) rune as there is no need to meet the creation requirements... like level or having the formula or the Magical Crafting feat.
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Again RD, you're not reading what I wrote... this exactly why I find it tiresome trying to discuss things here, people aren't actually reading what is written, they're projecting what they WANT to read into the text, the very source of the problem and misconception in the first place. Please go back and read the text you quoted again...
Etching Runes /=/ Transferring Runes.
You must believe that ETCHING RUNES in the first place does not require the Feat. That's the inevitable outcome of the way you're reading the rules unless you're applying inconsistent logic where one section of rules MUST list all of the requirements while the previous paragraph does NOT need to do this even while both sections point you to the Craft Activity.
Also, show me where it states you need the Magical Crafting Feat in the Etching Process rules, I'll wait.
You're trying to ignore the general rules in favor of your desired outcome. Etching Runes and Transferring Runes Rules both explicitly point to the Craft Activity, you do not get to just arbitrarily decide which parts of that Activity you can ignore because you don't like it, at least without admitting to yourself that you're implementing house rules.
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The whole point of creating runes and making them transferable is to make it easy to have good items without having great luck on drops or lots of down time to craft your owner custom items.
Adding on all these other requirements completely goes against that intent.
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The whole point of creating runes and making them transferable is to make it easy to have good items without having great luck on drops or lots of down time to craft your owner custom items.
Adding on all these other requirements completely goes against that intent.
Show me where the intent of this system is explained please, I'd love to see where the designers stated that was their intent. Again, you're inserting what you WANT out of the rules into your interpretation instead of relying on the printed word.
How many times do we have to go over this, this is the Rules subforum, we aren't here to discuss how people feel about the Rules, we are here to discuss what they actually say and mean.
You need to make a Craft check and beat the DC.
You need to pay 10% of the rune's price (note that it doesn't say this is in raw materials).
You need to spend 1 day.
You can reduce the price with additional days.That's not really disputable. It's explicitly stated in the rules for transferring runes.
Pretty sure that's it. That's all you need. You don't need the Magical Crafting feat, a specific character level, a specific Craft level of training, or the formula to transfer runes.
I don't believe that the references to using "the Craft activity" are to apply additional restrictions, but to inform you how it should interact with other rules (such as the downtime rules, for example).
Note also, that the rune transfer example shown in the book makes no mention of needing the feat, formula, or anything of the sort.
Craft checks are for making things. You aren't making things, so no check is required by that logic.
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"You can transfer runes between one item and another, including a runestone. This also uses the Craft activity. "
"Crafting Trained Actions
Craft
Source Core Rulebook pg. 244 2.0
You can make an item from raw materials. You need the Alchemical Crafting skill feat to create alchemical items, the Magical Crafting skill feat to create magic items, and the Snare Crafting feat to create snares.
To Craft an item, you must meet the following requirements:
The item is your level or lower. An item that doesn't list a level is level 0. If the item is 9th level or higher, you must be a master in Crafting, and if it's 16th or higher, you must be legendary.
You have the formula for the item; see Getting Formulas for more information.
You have an appropriate set of tools and, in many cases, a workshop. For example, you need access to a smithy to forge a metal shield, or an alchemist's lab to produce alchemical items.
You must supply raw materials worth at least half the item's Price. You always expend at least that amount of raw materials when you Craft successfully. If you're in a settlement, you can usually spend currency to get the amount of raw materials you need, except in the case of rarer precious materials.
You must spend 4 days at work, at which point you attempt a Crafting check. The GM determines the DC to Craft the item based on its level, rarity, and other circumstances.
If your attempt to create the item is successful, you expend the raw materials you supplied. You can pay the remaining portion of the item's Price in materials to complete the item immediately, or you can spend additional downtime days working on it. For each additional day you spend, reduce the value of the materials you need to expend to complete the item. This amount is determined using Table 4–2: Income Earned, based on your proficiency rank in Crafting and using your own level instead of a task level. After any of these downtime days, you can complete the item by spending the remaining portion of its Price in materials. If the downtime days you spend are interrupted, you can return to finish the item later, continuing where you left off. An example of Crafting appears in the sidebar.
Critical Success Your attempt is successful. Each additional day spent Crafting reduces the materials needed to complete the item by an amount based on your level + 1 and your proficiency rank in Crafting.
Success Your attempt is successful. Each additional day spent Crafting reduces the materials needed to complete the item by an amount based on your level and your proficiency rank.
Failure You fail to complete the item. You can salvage the raw materials you supplied for their full value. If you want to try again, you must start over.
Critical Failure You fail to complete the item. You ruin 10% of the raw materials you supplied, but you can salvage the rest. If you want to try again, you must start over."
And of course :
" The DC of the Crafting check to transfer a rune is determined by the item level of the rune being transferred, and the Price of the transfer is 10% of the rune’s Price, unless transferring from a runestone, which is free. If you’re swapping, use the higher level and higher Price between the two runes to determine these values. It takes 1 day (instead of the 4 days usually needed to Craft) to transfer a rune or swap a pair of runes, and you can continue to work over additional days to get a discount, as usual with Craft."
So, transferring runes uses all the rules for the Craft activity, except for the replacement rules specific to transferring runes quoted just above.
Anything that is not explicitly stated in transferring runes as different from the usual Craft activity (ie, DC, price, number of days) has to follow the rules of the Craft activity as quoted above.
So :
- The item is your level or lower. An item that doesn't list a level is level 0. If the item is 9th level or higher, you must be a master in Crafting, and if it's 16th or higher, you must be legendary.
- You have the formula for the item; see Getting Formulas for more information.
- You have an appropriate set of tools and, in many cases, a workshop. For example, you need access to a smithy to forge a metal shield, or an alchemist's lab to produce alchemical items
Of course, nothing prevents you from hiring someone to do this for you.
we aren't here to discuss how people feel about the Rules, we are here to discuss what they actually say and mean.Pretty sure we're here just to pat ourselves on the back about how smart we think we are, while ridiculing people who come to different conclusions about badly written rules text as incompetent morons.
Craft checks are for making things. You aren't making things, so no check is required by that logic.Occasionally we mock people with strawman arguments, too.
Discussing what the rules mean is pretty far down the list.
We're trying to say that the transferring of magical runes does not require a feat which permits the ability to craft magical items from which the skill is reliant on because you're not actually making the item.
Ridicule is well deserved in this case, and it's by no means a strawman.
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Ridicule is well deserved in this case...
Nuh-uh!
...and it's by no means a strawman.
Is too!
;P
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If that's not your position then you're selectively reading the rules to mean what you want it to say. Again, it points you to the general rules and defines the exceptions to them, otherwise, you must follow the guidelines printed in the Activity it tells you that you're using.Runes have formulas and create an end product: transferring require no formula and produce nothing [you're just moving someone else's work]. To craft a rune "you must meet any special Craft Requirements of the rune", like the Magical Crafting feat feat: transferring doesn't say that. Nothing stops someone that's is 1st level from transferring a Winged (Greater) rune as there is no need to meet the creation requirements... like level or having the formula or the Magical Crafting feat.
In addition to the CRB quotes I posted above, note that the PFS Guide states
"Applying and Transferring Runes
The Society has a specialist at the Grand Lodge who can apply or swap out runes for agents of the Pathfinder Society in good standing. This service is free, and requires no check, but is only available before the briefing or once the adventure is complete unless stated in the adventure. Only the service of transfering the rune is free however. Characters must still pay the 10% materials cost and provide any required runestones."
I do not believe they would mention a specialist at the Grand Lodge if anyone trained in Crafting could transfer any and all Runes.
Ridicule is well deserved in this case...Nuh-uh!
...and it's by no means a strawman.Is too!
;P
By all means, tell a GM you are transferring magical runes, each unique and distinct from one another, infused with magical eldritch energy, between magical weapons, and that your everyday town Blacksmith can do it with no exceptional training, experience, or skills to do so, just a day's worth of downtime and 10% of the rule's value.
Not only would most GMs double-take at this, they would also doubt the legitimacy of claims, based in RAW or otherwise, that this is feasible.
This is not to say that PCs can't find specialists who have the training and the know how to do this, but that if a PC does it, they likewise need to meet those requirements that the NPCs would theoretically have to meet. Which is the level, proficiency, formulas, and feats required, plus whatever else is required by the items in question if making from scratch.