Eldrtich heritage and Arcane Bloodline question.


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Okay, so here is the text-

Metamagic Adept (Ex): At 3rd level, you can apply any one metamagic feat you know to a spell you are about to cast without increasing the casting time. You must still expend a higher-level spell slot to cast this spell. You can use this ability once per day at 3rd level and one additional time per day for every four sorcerer levels you possess beyond 3rd, up to five times per day at 19th level. At 20th level, this ability is replaced by arcane apotheosis.

Note the bold text.

My question, if someone takes all three greater eldritch heritage feats, do they gain Arcane Apotheosis, as metamagic adept is replaced by it at level 20?

(note, a robe of Arcane Heritage would arguably allow this to be gained at level 16)

Shadow Lodge

Rules As Written, I think you do. Part of Metamagic Adept is being replaced by Arcane Apotheosis.


RAW, yes. It work with VMC, too. Fun trick, enjoy it, you've earned it.


RAW, seems legit. Honestly, Arcane Apotheosis is just a nice quality of life upgrade. It's not like it's super amazing or anything.


Scavion wrote:
It's not like it's super amazing or anything.

The second power of Arcane Apotheosis is actually super amazing: You can use spell slots instead of charges when using magic items [3 spell slot levels = 1 charge].

There's even a thread somewhere around here, where someone created a Staff of Wish and then uses low level spell-slots to cast many a Wish, e.g. if the spell consumes 1 charge from the staff, you can cast Wish with 3 of your 1st-level spell-slots.

Even a standard Staff of Evocation lets you cast Fireball for 3 1st-level spell-slots. That's OP.


rorek55 wrote:
My question, if someone takes all three greater eldritch heritage feats, do they gain Arcane Apotheosis, as metamagic adept is replaced by it at level 20?

Well, an unwilling GM could point out that your 3rd-level power gets replaced by an ability you actually do not have. Interpreted this way, at (effective) sorcerer level 20 you can't use metamagic adept anymore, but don't get arcane apothesis either.

Personally, I would let them keep metamagic adept. Capstones are something to be earned with a lot of playtime and sacrifice, they shouldn't be handed out due to rule loopholes. Now this one isn't that powerful, and level 20 is usually a hypothetical situation, but still...


With a chain of Eldritch Heritage feats, with or without the robes, and being level 16-20... you've earned it, so enjoy it.

With VMC, with or without the robes, and being level 16-20... you've earned it, so enjoy it.

An ability you DO have that is replaced by a new power at a certain level, does, in fact, give you the new power at that level. One goes away, and a new one replaces it. I don't see how any GM could possibly argue that on any grounds other than just being difficult.

The REAL question would be, that if you traded away Metamagic Adept, do you still get Acrane Apothesis at 20?


And does Crossblooded Arcane and something else mean you can get two bloodline capstones?


Minigiant wrote:
And does Crossblooded Arcane and something else mean you can get two bloodline capstones?

Probably, as long as you grabbed Metamagic Adept for entry into Arcane Apothesis. I don't see why not.

Two Bloodline Arcana that are in play the whole game is WAY more powerful than two Capstones.


Theaitetos wrote:
Scavion wrote:
It's not like it's super amazing or anything.

The second power of Arcane Apotheosis is actually super amazing: You can use spell slots instead of charges when using magic items [3 spell slot levels = 1 charge].

There's even a thread somewhere around here, where someone created a Staff of Wish and then uses low level spell-slots to cast many a Wish, e.g. if the spell consumes 1 charge from the staff, you can cast Wish with 3 of your 1st-level spell-slots.

Even a standard Staff of Evocation lets you cast Fireball for 3 1st-level spell-slots. That's OP.

An ability you get at 16th at the earliest? Nah. A staff of wish is houserules. Craft Staff only lets you craft written staves. You also still need to provide the component so spamming 25,000 gp is/was always silly.

It's faster to just spam planar binding for wishes.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

One thing that should be pointed out is that your effective sorcerer level for bloodline abilities is your character level minus 2, so the question of whether Metamagic Adept is replaced by Arcane Apotheosis would only come up if you also take the Greater Eldritch Heritage feat (which increases your effective sorcerer level to your full character level).

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