Stick-Fighting Maneuver + Magus Stuff


Rules Questions


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I'm currently looking into playing a Staff Magus that uses the Stick-Fighting Feat line particularly Maneuver and possibly Tripping Staff

1. Are Maneuvers subject to the -2 from Spell combat?

2. I could Manuver and Spellstrike and Iterative Attacks in one turn? or Spellstrike+Manuver as one action, and then Iterative Attack

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Minigiant wrote:

I'm currently looking into playing a Staff Magus that uses the Stick-Fighting Feat line particularly Maneuver and possibly Tripping Staff

1. Are Maneuvers subject to the -2 from Spell combat?

2. I could Manuver and Spellstrike and Iterative Attacks in one turn? or Spellstrike+Manuver as one action, and then Iterative Attack

1. Maneuvers use attack rolls. Any + or - added to an attack roll apply.

2. Generally yes


Minigiant wrote:
1. Are Maneuvers subject to the -2 from Spell combat?

"Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll." CRB pg. 199

Minigiant wrote:
2. I could Manuver and Spellstrike and Iterative Attacks in one turn? or Spellstrike+Manuver as one action, and then Iterative Attack

Spellstrike itself is not an action, so it doesn't actually interact with Stick-Fighting Maneuver. Thus the correct question is whether Spell Combat can be combined with Stick-Fighting Maneuver. The answer is "yes"; because while the feat says "When making a full attack", and Spell Combat says "As a full-round action", per this FAQ, Spell Combat does count as making a full attack.


Derklord wrote:
Spellstrike itself is not an action, so it doesn't actually interact with Stick-Fighting Maneuver. Thus the correct question is whether Spell Combat can be combined with Stick-Fighting Maneuver. The answer is "yes"; because while the feat says "When making a full attack", and Spell Combat says "As a full-round action", per this FAQ, Spell Combat does count as making a full attack.

I only mention Spellstrike because Tripping Staff feat allows you to deliver one as part of a maneuver. (I can't see any benefit as to why I would when they all take the -2 penalty)


Why wouldn't you use spellstrike on a trip attempt, if you could? Whether you're just trying to make sure the shocking grasp lands, or trying to get as many hits of frostbite in as possible it's a sensible move.


avr wrote:
Why wouldn't you use spellstrike on a trip attempt, if you could? Whether you're just trying to make sure the shocking grasp lands, or trying to get as many hits of frostbite in as possible it's a sensible move.

Because you might as well take the extra attack with the damage from the base weapon


Knocking someone prone will often be worth more than 1d6+Str+enhancement bonus damage. Which is why people get into tripping at all. Not losing the spellstrike damage on the attack used to trip is probably worth a feat.

One trip attempt replaces one attack (standard or part of a full attack), you're not limited to a standard action with that combat maneuver if it makes a difference.


avr wrote:
One trip attempt replaces one attack (standard or part of a full attack), you're not limited to a standard action with that combat maneuver if it makes a difference.

I am gaining a free maneuver from Stick-Fighting Maneuver


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Fine; spellstrike works with that free maneuver. What's the problem here? The only reason not to use spellstrike on that maneuver (if it's available) is because you want the chance of a crit, and staves have a crit range of 20 which makes that not worth hanging out for.


Minigiant wrote:
I only mention Spellstrike because Tripping Staff feat allows you to deliver one as part of a maneuver.

The special section seems to be written backwards. It makes absolutely no sense for it to say "you can use spellstrike on any trip combat maneuver", as spellstrike is mandatorily tied to casting a spell. I'm pretty sure it's supposed to read as that you can make a trip attempt in place of the free attack from spellstrike - back when the book was released, you could only make weapon-based trip attempts with a trip weapon, and I presume the special section was reminder text that you can now combine discharging the touch spell with a trip maneuver (which you could already do with any other trip weapon).

Note that since this blog, and the subsequent changes to this FAQ, you can make trip attempts with any weapon anyway.


Here's a question worth asking: what magic staves can actually benefit for a staff magus? It's one thing to know the combat maneuvers, but with what weapon you're doing it is also important.


Rule wise it is doable. Staff Magus focuses on quarterstaff and magical staves(starting at $7200). A tonfa WpnGrp:Close, Monk, Feats:Stick-Fighting Counter, Stick-Fighting Style would be ideal for defense but...

If you do it, do it for FLAVOR.
There are several efficiency problems with the build(s) that make it less effective than the regular Magus class.
There are several threads on the topic and I'd suggest reading a build guide to see what some people think works well.

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