Is there a Winter Witch archetype yet for 2nd Edition?

[Berselius]

Is there a Winter Witch archetype yet for 2nd Edition Pathfinder?

If it's upcoming in a manual then what upcoming manual is it?

If it's already out, does anyone have any details about it?

Will it be able to get a feat that will allow the Winter Witch to bypass immunity to cold damage?

[Temperans]

As far as I know there is none. And I have no idea if they will ever bring that back.

[Cordell Kintner]

There is a Winter patron, and a Baba Yaga Patron. AFAIK there is no way to bypass cold resistance or immunity, but I haven't gone through the Witch feats yet.

[Ventnor]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

There is a Winter patron, and a Baba Yaga Patron. AFAIK there is no way to bypass cold resistance or immunity, but I haven't gone through the Witch feats yet.

The Overwhelming Energy metamagic feat lets you blow through cold resistance fairly easily, and shows up on the Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard feat lists.

If OP isn't playing in PFS, it might be worth it to ask their GM if their winter witch can take the feat as a witch class feat, since it isn't exclusive to any one caster. Waiting for level 20 to take seems a tad excessive to me.

[Berselius]

Ah, nutbunnies. I hope they give us a Winter Witch archetype. I mean, we got both an Archetype and a Prestige class of it in 1st Edition Pathfinder. It'd be shame if we couldn't get it again. :(

[Temperans]

Winter Witch is not about the patron being "winter" or "Baba Yaga". Although the Winter Witches of Irrisen do typically use those patrons.

[Ascalaphus]

Keep in mind that monsters have far less immunities and resistances in second edition, so bypassing them is not quite as high a priority.

A wintertouched human with the winter witch theme definitely feels like a "winter witch" to me.

You can't quite get the "so cold it freezes ice creatures" thing, but it's always good to have multiple energy types at hand just so you can exploit weaknesses. Like, an ice creature might burn well. And while skeletons have cold resistance, you also have Disrupt Undead on that spell list.

[Berselius]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Keep in mind that monsters have far less immunities and resistances in second edition, so bypassing them is not quite as high a priority.

Eh, it's still a nifty little ability.

Ascalaphus wrote:

You can't quite get the "so cold it freezes ice creatures" thing, but it's always good to have multiple energy types at hand just so you can exploit weaknesses.

I disagree. The original Winter Witch prestige class had that very ability (aka to generate ice so utterly cold it freezes enemies normally immune to it).

There are places I believe on the Elemental Planes and even some Fiendish Planes (aka Jhuvumirak/Bloodpyre Fields in the Abyss, Phlegethon/Cocytus in Hell) where the temperatures are either so utterly hot or so utterly cold that the elemental damage bypasses resistances/immunities to fire/cold.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Berselius wrote:

There are places I believe on the Elemental Planes and even some Fiendish Planes (aka Jhuvumirak/Bloodpyre Fields in the Abyss, Phlegethon/Cocytus in Hell) where the temperatures are either so utterly hot or so utterly cold that the elemental damage bypasses resistances/immunities to fire/cold.

Source? I can't find this in PF1's Planar Adventures or on the Archives of Nethys' PF1 side.

[MadMars]

I desperately hope they make one. I need it.

[swoosh]

The only noteworthy ability the PF1 Winter Witch archetype has is +1 to the DC of [cold] spells.

Of all the archetypes that Paizo could or should consider porting to PF2, this one should be toward the very bottom. There's nothing there.

[MadMars]

Ultimately, it's a pretty unique thing to Golarion (in the form that it's in) and huge in the lore, so it's really likely to get ported at some point.

[Kendaan]

They might make a spellcasting archetype focused on Cold, but a winter witch archetype is too narrow a focus compared to what has been done so far.

You can already do a Winter Witch though:
Winter Patron
Lesson of the Elements
Lesson of Snow
Lesson of the Frozen Queen

Here you are!

On top of that, be a Winter touched human (for the nice lvl 13 iriseni ice witch ancestry feat), with the Winter's child background, and you are a winter witch through and through!

[Temperans]

swoosh wrote:

The only noteworthy ability the PF1 Winter Witch archetype has is +1 to the DC of [cold] spells.

Of all the archetypes that Paizo could or should consider porting to PF2, this one should be toward the very bottom. There's nothing there.

The Winter Witch archetype did a lot more than just add +1 to the DC.

It also gave you:

* Endure elements vs cold and scaling resistance to cold, eventually immunity. This is just straight up great.

* A swift action to add the cold trait and 1d4 cold damage when you land a touch spell. Useful to trigger conditions or add extra damage.

* And the ability to move through Ice and snow with no or reduced penalty even up walls, which is huge when your theme is all about creating icy surfaces and snow: Its also extremely useful in campaigns where there is lots of snow/ice.

All of which are extremely useful and extremely flavorful. And they would make for perfect feats in PF2.

[Ventnor]

The Endure Elements vs. cold and scaling resistance is actually already in the game via the Heritage that was basically made to replicate Winter Witches, Wintertouched Human. There's even an Irriseni Ice-Witch feat too.

It's not everything that existed back in PF1, but I'd say there are enough building blocks in PF2 to make a Winter Witch even if there's never a dedicated archetype for it. Not saying that one should never be made, but the concept can be created in PF2, and it looks like it should be fairly viable at that.

[Ravingdork]

Temperans wrote:

Winter Witch is not about the patron being "winter" or "Baba Yaga". Although the Winter Witches of Irrisen do typically use those patrons.

What? Well what the heck is a winter witch then if not a cold witch follower of Baba Yaga?

[Temperans]

Ventnor wrote:

The Endure Elements vs. cold and scaling resistance is actually already in the game via the Heritage that was basically made to replicate Winter Witches, Wintertouched Human. There's even an Irriseni Ice-Witch feat too.

It's not everything that existed back in PF1, but I'd say there are enough building blocks in PF2 to make a Winter Witch even if there's never a dedicated archetype for it. Not saying that one should never be made, but the concept can be created in PF2, and it looks like it should be fairly viable at that.

Ravingdork wrote:

Temperans wrote:

Winter Witch is not about the patron being "winter" or "Baba Yaga". Although the Winter Witches of Irrisen do typically use those patrons.

What? Well what the heck is a winter witch then if not a cold witch follower of Baba Yaga?

Winter Witch PF1 wrote:

A winter witch must choose her patron from one of the following patron themes: ancestors, deception, enchantment, endurance, moon, occult, portents, stars, transformation, trickery, water, winter, or wisdom.

Winter Witches might have a strong in setting tie to Irrisen and Baba Yaga. But there is nothing saying that they all need to be from Irrisen, related to Baba Yaga, or be humans.

A Winter Witch archetype should and would allow any race to be a Winter Witch.

Having a human heritage be from Irrisen does not a Winter Witch make. It might be easier for them to be Winter Witches (not having to spend a class feat). But they should not be the only ones who get to be Winter Witches.

Winter Witch PRC wrote:

Not all winter witches have a blood connection to the nobility of Irrisen. Some have their craft passed down to them by wizened mentors, and others hear their calling in the howling winds of a freezing winter’s night. Of those winter witches who live outside Irrisen, many subsist on the fringes of civilization or in the wild, often concealing their powers lest they be seen as Irriseni spies. This is particularly true in the lands of the Linnorm Kings, where memories of the Winter War with Irrisen fuel long-held hatreds, as well as in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords, whose superstitious tribespeople deeply distrust most forms of arcane magic.

[Ventnor]

Expertise in snowy and icy environments can be handled pretty well by the Horizon Walker archetype.

But if we're now talking about hypothetical Winter Witch options in the future, the way I'd handle it would be through the Changeling Versatile Heritage. There'd be a level 1 Ice Witch Lineage feat that would give you some wintery benefits, and later Changeling heritage feats would expand upon the theme.

Those are my thoughts, anyway.

[Temperans]

Ventnor, that doesn't address the problem of Winter Witches needing to be an archetype. Being a Winter Witch is not about your bloodline, heritage, or lineage.

Its also not about expertise in snowy and icy environment, but a magical connection with cold and icy things.

[Captain Morgan]

Temperans wrote:

Ventnor, that doesn't address the problem of Winter Witches needing to be an archetype. Being a Winter Witch is not about your bloodline, heritage, or lineage.

Its also not about expertise in snowy and icy environment, but a magical connection with cold and icy things.

Your bloodline, heritage, lineage, and ancestry feats are literally having a magical connection with cold and icy things. And there's at least 3 ancestors who have cold resistance heritages and will probably be more.

[Temperans]

Having a cold heritage/ancestry makes you more thematically ice related. But it does not make you a winter witch.

Similarly, just because you are a winter witch does not mean you have a cold ancestry/heritage.

Winter Witch is a Witch that has an even greater focus on cold than the regular Witch. You could come from a desert having fire resistance and still be a Winter Witch.

[Ventnor]

I'm not sure what else to say. There are multiple posts on this thread detailing the ancestry, class, and archetype options that have been published in PF2 as of October 2020 that can help someone create a reasonable approximation of the Winter Witch character concept in this game.

I get that they don't entirely fit your vision for what a Winter Witch should be, but what do you expect us to do? Break into the Paizo Offices and hold a gun to the design team's head long enough for them to write one up? Right now, there is no official Winter Witch archetype and no indications of when or even if one will be officially published.

[Rude_]

Maybe if Secrets of Magic expands on elemental focused casting or some Lost Omens: Saga Lands book or module comes out we'll see that archetype. I think it was a thematically popular witch thing for PF1 and in other media and they seem to have done a pretty good job in incorporating it as a patron and even having a cold them as an occult or primal caster.

I'm playing a Winter patron witch as my converted PF1 Winter witch and I find it more interesting than the PF1 version where I went full into Winter archetype/patron/prestige class. The cold focus and higher DCs was neat but got stale

I miss the Phoenix and Unicorn sorcerer bloodlines but their tricks of being arcane casters with some heal spells are most likely just going to be Primal tradition casters that can choose to take Heal. Some stuff just came over or will in a different form

[MadMars]

Ventnor wrote:

I'm not sure what else to say. There are multiple posts on this thread detailing the ancestry, class, and archetype options that have been published in PF2 as of October 2020 that can help someone create a reasonable approximation of the Winter Witch character concept in this game.

I get that they don't entirely fit your vision for what a Winter Witch should be, but what do you expect us to do? Break into the Paizo Offices and hold a gun to the design team's head long enough for them to write one up? Right now, there is no official Winter Witch archetype and no indications of when or even if one will be officially published.

I don't know about all that, but I just wanted to contribute to the amount of people hoping for one.

Sure, you could create a somewhat reasonable approximation with current mechanics (as you could with many things that got dedicated archetypes or options too) but having a neat cold caster package that you could slap onto different characters would be cool. The Viking archetype for places like the Linnorm Kingdoms was cool, a mammoth rider would be cool for the mammoth lords (if there isn't one already) and if they do end up doing one for Irrisen, a winter witch (even if its class agnostic, which would actually rule) would be a perfect fit imo.

Sure, it's a bit niche, like Aldori Swordlords or Grey Maidens etc but a lot of people love it and it would just be fun. Nothing occupies that spot the whole package could perfectly (what if I want to be a cold resistant Changeling Witch, I think wintertouched human would be off limits?) etc.

No, my avatar in no way indicates I have strong feelings about this, why do you ask?