Help with spell selection for a bad character

[Jason Wedel]

I am finally going to get to run a concept character (maybe more story arc based???) I have had in the back of my head for a while

I know choices are not optimal, while I appreciate the advice, and I want to be "good", I don't need to be "Great". I am willing to take a lot of less optimal choices to get the feel I want. Thus some "bad" choices.

The campaign path is Kingmaker

The character's name is Remlin and he is starting off as an Arcane Sorcerer with a Valet Magpie (Thrush) Familiar named Zebra. Their relationship is somewhat difficult, with Zebra pushing Remlin to be better.

Remlin will move at level 2 to Arcanist (Bloodline development) and basicaly stay there.

So looking for spell ideas for level 1. The idea is that he is a bit of a "Wild Talent". He has been living in the woods, surviving with survival (after some "accidents"). I only need one more spell (taking Mage armor and non combat cantrips). I want something that is not to "level dependent". Right now I am leaning towards Feather Fall, Blend, True Strike. Which one do you think I should go with and why?

Thoughts?

[avr]

Heightened awareness (to alert him) or vanish (to run away) if he's a jumpy type?
Gravity bow if he's an elf with bow prof. and a good dex?
Shield for an AC to make fighters jealous?

I'd probably go with heightened awareness, but there's a case for any of those.

[Jason Wedel]

He is already slightly on the nimble side (dex 14) so an AC of 20, this is Amusing to me...

[Philippe Lam]

Jason Wedel wrote:

He is already slightly on the nimble side (dex 14) so an AC of 20, this is Amusing to me...

The running gag which often runs at many tables : a good spellcaster is a dead spellcaster. That might be ok for several levels but afterwards, that number will need to be raised.

[zza ni]

unseen servant. + heavy crossbow.
servant reload you shoot each turn...he can also do other stuff :)

[gnoams]

Why the one level of sorcerer?

[David knott 242]

I think he is sacrificing one level or arcanist spellcasting to enable his arcanist levels to stack with his single sorcerer level for bloodline powers.

The blood arcanist archetype would be a more optimal way to do this -- so I think this is the biggest non-optimal choice cited in the first post.

[Jason Wedel]

David knott 242 wrote:

I think he is sacrificing one level or arcanist spellcasting to enable his arcanist levels to stack with his single sorcerer level for bloodline powers.

The blood arcanist archetype would be a more optimal way to do this -- so I think this is the biggest non-optimal choice cited in the first post.

Fair assessment, the stacking is actually a "make a bad choice better", as even without it I would still take the 1 level of sorcerer as part of the concept, but otherwise accurate. Also a lot of choices at level 1 will benefit later and have 0 effect till then...

[Jason Wedel]

gnoams wrote:

Why the one level of sorcerer?

To get it out there:

Remlin has magic coursing through his veins. While his bloodline is powerful in this sense he is unable to control it (that well). The level of sorcerer represents this time where he has yet to master things, while the switch to arcanist represents him learning methods of channeling the abilities....

[gnoams]

So here's my 2 cents. Class, archetypes, feats, mechanics of the game are mechanical decisions. Any character concept could be made with many different mechanical combinations in pf1, all of them being equally suited to representing the same (story, fluff, whatever you want to call it) character.

Remlin has magic coursing through his veins. He struggled to control his powers but with the help of his friend Zebra the thrush, he learned how. His struggle time happened before the game started (ie level 0), learning control is represented by his 1st level of a class. Remlin is a 1st level eldritch scion magus with the arcane bloodline, and iron will & familiar bond to get his friend Zebra. There, I just changed every mechanical choice for your character without changing your character (story) at all.

My point is not to try to get you to change your mind about what class(es) you want to use for your character, but to make you realize that this class choice is about the game mechanics, not about your character's story. Choose whichever mechanics you want for the same reason you choose your story: because you think it will be interesting to play.

[Philippe Lam]

The mileage the player will get from the characters will depend as much on the GM's belief on the RP than in the mechanics. The character story is only impactful so far.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Spell choice for a level 1 sorcerer says a lot about who you are, what you will become. Taking levels in Arcanist after that basically throws that out the window. With enough Downtime you'll have whatever spell you want then, so I don't know how long spell choice will actually help "define" you.

That being said, Remlin has been "hiding in the woods." Yet he's also a sorcerer, not a ranger, druid, barbarian, hunter, or other classes/archetypes that are typically associated with woodland survival.

This doesn't mean that he's helpless out there. With a 12 Wis and the right Trait he's got Survival as a Class skill with a +1 Trait bonus. This results in a Survival +5; so long as the GM is allowing you to take 10 on survival checks, you can get by in the wilderness.

Then there's the issue of self-defense. Obviously some kind of personal defense spell would be good. Common predators or threats present in the woods, outside of supernatural forces or monsters, would be animals who are faster than you, toxic plants, and natural hazards.

Ironically, if you remove monsters and such, surviving in the woods with magic isn't always about a Shield spell. If you accidentally run across a black bear and it decides to attack instead of flee, having a round of AC 20 isn't much of a boon. Instead, let's look at escape plans.

Obscuring Mist is my own personal default at level 1. Putting a sudden wall of mist between you and a foe could be very advantageous. Some animals however have Scent and once they spot your square they can move to within 5' of you, removing your advantage. While this spell is great to hide you from ranged attacking foes, it's not much use against animals.

Vanish is another ideal spell. Its only a round of invisibility, but that might just be enough time. I only wish you had some way of making consumables since having lots of 1 round Vanish spells, say on scrolls, would be much better.

Another good spell against single foes, such as that bear, would be Glue Seal. Assuming an 18 Cha, the spell requires a DC 15 Ref save. Lots of Animal type monsters that would serve as apex predators have between a 12 to 17 Dex, though Ref is also one of their good Saves. Still, even if this spell only worked half the time, that's half your animal attackers stuck for a round or more while you flee.

Now, all of these suggestions are in addition to the spectacular advice of AVR upthread. Heightened Awareness is a great spell to have just in general. I know I repeated Vanish though; that's because it's THAT good for getting away.

Let's think about that though... getting away. Many animals, especially predator types, have between a 30 to a 50 base move speed. You have a 30. This means they are often as fast or faster than you. Also many Animal type creatures have extra movement types such as a Climb or Fly speed. How do you get away from these things?

Expeditious Retreat is an obvious one. Another would be Jump. Still another could be Monkey Fish, though the Climb and Swim speeds are fairly slow. Finally, Touch of the Sea is a way to get a good Swim speed if useful.

At some point you're going to have to attack. Fire based damage is right out; you're in a forest. Depending on the season such spells might also be a death sentence for you, Zebra and much of the woods. Ditto could be said for Electricity attacks, though less so.

This leaves us with Force, Sonic, Acid, or Cold damage if you want to deal energy damage. Weapon attacks will be useful for hunting or against Plant creatures with a slow movement or no movement, but at half BAB counting on a longspear or crossbow, even with a 14 Dex, is basically giving up.

Personally, if I were Remlin and expected to be spending a significant amount of time in the woods, I'd strongly consider an alternate racial trait that gives me 3 0-level spells and 1 level 1 spell as an SLA usable 1/day in a Forest terrain type. For half-elves its called Fey Magic, don't know if all races get this option but a few of them do.

If that is both an option AND a mechanical choice you're willing to take for Remlin, strongly consider Charm Animal. Think about it; how cool would it be to take a second Trait that gives you Handle Animal as a Class skill, also have Charm Animal 1/day, and be able to spend a week back in your woodland home during Downtime in game befriending and training your own wolf buddy?

Having a wolf at your side would keep other predators at bay, the animal's Scent ability might alert you to hazards you might not have noticed, and after SEVERAL weeks of training you could even have a proper attack wolf for you to use in combat. Sure, you'd be spending Move actions to get your wolf to perform tricks it knows, such as Attack or Defend, but still... you're a level 1 sorcerer with a WOLF!

Anyway, hopefully this gives you some food for thought. Of course, I wouldn't be me on these boards w/out a WHOLE other rabbit hole to send you down. Remlin has an Arcane bloodline right? Why would ANY of his powers be useful for woodland survival?

Mage Armor is pretty "arcane." Magic Missile is an arcane staple that goes all the way back to when the class was just called "magic user" and they wore robes with stars and a pointy hat. Other arcane-seeming spells might include Incendiary Runes, Alarm, Hold Portal, Expeditious Construction or Expeditious Excavation, Summon Monster I, Grease or Web Bolt, Enlarge Person, Mount, Stumble Gap, Identify, True Strike, Charm Person, Sleep, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp, Floating Disk, Color Spray, Darting Duplicate, Magic Aura, Ventriloquism, Ray of Enfeeblement, Animate Rope, Magic Weapon, Windy Escape, Hypnotism, or even Comprehend Languages.

Frankly, I think it would be cool if your GM allowed you to pick 10 of these spells, then roll a D10 every day for the spells Remlin can actually manifest that day. This would work into your concept of the character still developing control over his abilities. It might be frustrating to your party and could even end up hurting your chances of success: "Remlin, what do you mean you can only give objects a magic aura, conjure disks of force that follow you and make doors harder to open for the day? We're about to raid the goblin camp!"

Still, that second list of spells, IMO, fit with a more arcane, almost wizard-like force flowing through their veins. Your final decision might vary wildly.

Finally, I gotta concur with G to the Noams upthread. Character concept and character build are 2 completely different things. Build however you want to J Dubs, your fun is your fun. I'm just sayin', you could pull off this PC's character concept as a Wizard, Sorcerer with Arcane Bloodline, a half-elf of any arcane casting class, and so on. The major beats of the PC concept are that you're still learning your powers, you have arcane magic flowing through your veins, and you have a familiar named Zebra helping you.

Just look at half-elves. They get a free Skill Focus feat at creation. Make that Skill Focus: Knowledge (any of your choice) and then as your level 1 Feat you take Eldritch Heritage/Arcane Bloodline to get a familiar. Boom. You have a feat that represents magic flowing through your veins and that also gives you your familiar. Now all you need are some powers to master, whether that be from Wizard, Arcanist, Magus, a Rogue that will eventually take Minor and Major Magic talents, Bard, the Witch archetype that gets a book instead of a familiar, and so on.

On the other hand you could do the same thing with a human, just use the bonus feat as your skill focus. Another way to prove this concept would be to play a class that gets a familiar. A witch with a patron could be reskinned to be explained as a witch whose body is somehow connected to a universal well of arcane energies that provides them with the arcane bond to a familiar that, in turn, instructs the witch on what else they can do with the powerful radiation flowing through them.

On yet ANOTHER hand, I once made a game where sorcerers were basically mutants from the Marvel comics. They don't necessarily have spells, but rather super powers they can briefly manifest and grow stronger as they gain experience. They're born that way though, and their bloodline alters their body as well as giving them powers. To keep true to the comics, in that campaign sorcerers were hated and feared by the general populace.

In fact, taking THAT concept one step further, what if sorcerers got their powers the same way super heroes do in the comics? Some are born with their "bloodline", but others might have been dropped into a vat of fleshwarping chemicals and now have the Aberrant bloodline, representing how after their accident they can now spit acid all day (Acid Splash cantrip), a few times/day vomit a huge blast of acid (bloodline power), and also leap great distances (Jump Spell), exude acid from their hands (Corrosive Touch spell) or even elongate their own rubbery limbs (Longarm spell). You could have such a PC play whatever race but give them a scarred, "aberrant" appearance, dress them in a mask and cape, and boom, you've got what the Marvel Super Heroes game back in the 80's would call an "Altered Human" origin super hero.

I know I kind of wandered off topic there, sorry. Hopefully this gives you enough to chew on for Remlin. Also, if you don't call him Remlin the Gremlin at some point, I'm calling this a missed opportunity! :)

[Jason Wedel]

@Mark Hoover 330: Wow, thank you for that. food for thought. The living in the woods thing is a backstory type of thing that I don't plan lasting longer than a couple levels, but WOW!!! thank you

[Sysryke]

You've been given tons of great ideas so far, but if you're still committed to sorcerer for your first level, could you tell us what spells you've chosen already? That would help to narrow down the final choice of spell.

[avr]

The character's made now apparently Sysryke - https://paizo.com/threads/rzs437er?Here-he-is-Remlin

[Sysryke]

thanks, I caught that about 5 minutes after I posted here *face palm* :p