Taking a break from the summoner/magus drama :)
I'm hoping I can convince one of my players to take a turn DMing in a couple of weeks and I was brainstorming some character themes while watching some anime. I happen to discover Fate/Zero and was enthralled with Gilgamesh and his ability to just summon and hurl swords at his opponents via kinesis.
I started with a human wizard(prefer humans), though i could probably get the them going faster as an elf with the ancient elf ancestry.
Universalist with spell blending to get higher slots (listing only class feats for simplicity)
1:Hand of the Apprentice
2:Mauler Dedication (for 2h weapon proficiency)
4:Call Bonded Item (by this level, designate a Bastard Sword)
6: Bespell Weapon
8: Universal Versatility (to get a second focus point,not much options for wiz)
10: Knockdown (from mauler dedication)
12: Bond Conservation (more spell usage)
14: Superior Bond (even more spell usage)
16: Bonded Focus
18: Reprepare Spell
20: Archwizard's Might (hieghtened 10th Weapon Storm anyone?)
The meat of the build comes from spell choice.
The most important spells are:
Telekinetic Projectile cantrip to throw the sword in range then use Call Bonded item to get the sword back by the end of the round. Yes it doesnt allow you to get the sword's magical effects but im going for theme rather than power gaming. This would be the build's basic spam attack.
Hand of the Apprentice allows the same thing, but stacks the sword's properties but its limited by focus points so it would be more like a medium power attack.
Then the third most important spell is Weapon Storm, which mimics what the anime character does RAW particularly in cone form. Basically its his big move and all the higher level slots would be filled with it.
The rest of the build (skills, general, spell choices) would be the typical fighter/wizard suite. It seems like a one trick pony but it gets the character theme im going for. Would appreciate feedback on alternative class feat choices or any stand out skill/general feats. Of course i would go for the usual toughness, imp init, and fleet options at the very least.
Remember that as a wizard without a plate, a shield, and a low hp pool, you are going to go down easily.
Yesterday I went down pretty easy, as a lvl 8 plated champion with no shield.
Enemies critted me on 18+ ( 16+ while flanking) with an average 35/45 damage on a 104 hp pool.
A wizard would have been obliterated in less than 1 round, if melee with a maul.
How do your ability scores look like? Are you going Int/Str, Int/Dex or something in between?
Int/Str would mean your AC will be terrible. 30 ft range on your spells really isn't THAT much. Int/Dex makes Knockdown nearly useless (unless you get the MUCH better Improved Knockdown).
If you want to go into melee at all, you NEED Str and Armor. Maybe get a weapon proficiency via ancestry feats and pick up Sentinel instead of Mauler.
stat wise i planned to start with 14 14 10 12 10 10, then use stat boost on physical plus int as i leveled. As for armor i was hoping the ranged aspect and movement spells would keep me safe enough in the short term with mage armor as a stop gap. Frankly its one of my pet peeves with pf2e that the numbers are so tight you need to max out ac as much as possible unlike previous editions.
taking sentinel over mauler, ill be delayed since ill have to use two feats to boost to bastard sword proficiency. i could do it with sorc but losing summon bond item screws with the tk projectile combo, hrm....
add: took the mauler so the prof would go up to expert later on. getting wp thru skill feats limits me to trained. I fully expect to be killed if i go melee, hoping enough mobilty feats and the repulsion spell would keep me alive. But ill see if i can weave in sentinel at some point without compromising the whole kinesis weapon thing.
Undraxis wrote: stat wise i planned to start with 14 14 10 12 10 10 That's only 5 boosts, everyone starts with 9 (1x class + 2x background + 2x ancestry + 4 free) unless you're playing some variant I'm unaware of.
In my opinion, you should go Fighter with a Wizard Dedication.
Take your Sword, obliterate things, get Hand of the Apprentice at level 4 to throw your Sword whenever you want, Weapon Storm at level 12 for AoE damage and you should be fine.
Because if you expect to be competitive by limiting yourself to a cantrip (useless after level 6), a focus spell (weak by definition) and Weapon Storm (weak spell, its main strength is to abuse special materials weaknesses) you will be highly disappointed. Your whole carreer will look like an endless grind and you won't feel like Gilgamesh at all (unless he's weak, but I have a doubt from your description).
Or eventually, a ranger.
In order to have refocusing 2x.
mrspaghetti wrote: Undraxis wrote: stat wise i planned to start with 14 14 10 12 10 10 That's only 5 boosts, everyone starts with 9 (1x class + 2x background + 2x ancestry + 4 free) unless you're playing some variant I'm unaware of. wasnt counting the initial 4, would become 16 16 12 14 10 10 then 18 18 14 16 10 10 at 5 etc.
SuperBidi wrote: In my opinion, you should go Fighter with a Wizard Dedication.
Take your Sword, obliterate things, get Hand of the Apprentice at level 4 to throw your Sword whenever you want, Weapon Storm at level 12 for AoE damage and you should be fine.
Because if you expect to be competitive by limiting yourself to a cantrip (useless after level 6), a focus spell (weak by definition) and Weapon Storm (weak spell, its main strength is to abuse special materials weaknesses) you will be highly disappointed. Your whole carreer will look like an endless grind and you won't feel like Gilgamesh at all (unless he's weak, but I have a doubt from your description).
good points. ill have to consider it, but 12 seems a little late to see the theme thru. Also I tend to GM more often then not, so when i play i tend to try wierd non-optimized builds. I try to make up for it during roleplay situations.
ironically in the anime gilgamesh is defeated by a novice mage/fighter who realized by going full melee gilgamesh couldnt keep up. he was used to just flinging the swords at range. In a later season/series ive seen him melee after he is resummoned/rezzed and he looked more like a typical dual wield fighter. The whole anime series implies historical heroes can be summoned in different roles, saber, archer, rider, berserker, etc. The initial role he was summoned as was archer.
as a side note, the whole series showcases shared hp summoners basically.
Undraxis wrote: good points. ill have to consider it, but 12 seems a little late to see the theme thru. Also I tend to GM more often then not, so when i play i tend to try wierd non-optimized builds. I try to make up for it during roleplay situations. Well, it's always a question of taste.
But one of the main strength of the Wizard is its versatility. Limiting yourself to 3 spells will really kill your efficiency in combat. If it's not important to you, then it's fine. But Pathfinder 2 is a very balanced game. If your DM calculates encounters using the official encounter system, a PC who's not meeting the expectations can really toughen up the whole experience for everyone.
It's also important to take that into account. I would certainly at least talk with my DM if I ever plan on playing a character who's really not optimized for combat.
SuperBidi wrote: Undraxis wrote: good points. ill have to consider it, but 12 seems a little late to see the theme thru. Also I tend to GM more often then not, so when i play i tend to try wierd non-optimized builds. I try to make up for it during roleplay situations. Well, it's always a question of taste.
But one of the main strength of the Wizard is its versatility. Limiting yourself to 3 spells will really kill your efficiency in combat. If it's not important to you, then it's fine. But Pathfinder 2 is a very balanced game. If your DM calculates encounters using the official encounter system, a PC who's not meeting the expectations can really toughen up the whole experience for everyone.
It's also important to take that into account. I would certainly at least talk with my DM if I ever plan on playing a character who's really not optimized for combat. True, but considering the other players in the group, I'll probably be the ONLY one that is building based on theme or roleplay. I get tired of their fighter/mage/rogue gishes >.<. They should be able to cover me combat-wise.
I do plan to have an ample spell list tho, at least to cover up some versatility. I just wanted my primary combat spells follow the theme(akin to fire mages casting fire etc). And im hoping ill be able to get enough items to cover up my combat deficiencies by level 10 depending on how much loot the GM gives.
Looks fun. I would change Con and Dex as it does your build no good to have so few hit points and be sickened, drained, or poisoned all the time. It seems you intend to get in there and mix it up. Fortitude saves are generally better for melee due to all the effects a melee has to take with poison, grabs, swallows, diseases, sickness auras, life drains, and the like.
Deriven Firelion wrote: Looks fun. I would change Con and Dex as it does your build no good to have so few hit points and be sickened, drained, or poisoned all the time. It seems you intend to get in there and mix it up. Fortitude saves are generally better for melee due to all the effects a melee has to take with poison, grabs, swallows, diseases, sickness auras, life drains, and the like. True, i still have a week or two before i commit to choices. Figured the ac is better early on, then make up for it in the mid levels when i feel i have enough hp and ac to mix a little, unless one of the other guys does a champion with sword and board. For sure with that i can mix it up easier (if not safely).
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