Only one I've seen mechanically that isn't niche is the one krispy came up with of a medic summoner who heals himself to heal the eidolon. Wich while conceptually cool. Is just you spamming heal on yourself.
It is by far eventually the best option for any variety of Dragon rider.
It costs you like 3 total lifetime feats for size and wings eventually, as all the super dragony stuff comes with the base form... this means you have a lot of feats left over to pick up whichever archetype best suits how you want to do things.
Sentinel is obvious for survival, but Bastion is also pretty solid - especially once your dexterity and unarmed proficiency hit their caps.
Weapon archetypes are also an option, and a breath weapon doesn't touch MAP making for some solid interactions and attack routines.
It is by far eventually the best option for any variety of Dragon rider.
It costs you like 3 total lifetime feats for size and wings eventually, as all the super dragony stuff comes with the base form... this means you have a lot of feats left over to pick up whichever archetype best suits how you want to do things.
Sentinel is obvious for survival, but Bastion is also pretty solid - especially once your dexterity and unarmed proficiency hit their caps.
Weapon archetypes are also an option, and a breath weapon doesn't touch MAP making for some solid interactions and attack routines.
Unless I missed something or looks like the DC on the eidolons abilities (dragons breath) will be abysmally low eventually with no way to make it relevant. It's part of why I wished the eidolons DC was the summoner's. Would give more reason to get into charisma for when you don't care to be a face summoner.
Only one I've seen mechanically that isn't niche is the one krispy came up with of a medic summoner who heals himself to heal the eidolon. Wich while conceptually cool. Is just you spamming heal on yourself.
Doesn't fit the topic, as that's just an intuitive build not based on any external material or theme.
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Only one I've seen mechanically that isn't niche is the one krispy came up with of a medic summoner who heals himself to heal the eidolon. Wich while conceptually cool. Is just you spamming heal on yourself.Doesn't fit the topic, as that's just an intuitive build not based on any external material or theme.
It says builds. Not fluff.
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Unless I missed something or looks like the DC on the eidolons abilities (dragons breath) will be abysmally low eventually with no way to make it relevant. It's part of why I wished the eidolons DC was the summoner's. Would give more reason to get into charisma for when you don't care to be a face summoner.It is by far eventually the best option for any variety of Dragon rider.
It costs you like 3 total lifetime feats for size and wings eventually, as all the super dragony stuff comes with the base form... this means you have a lot of feats left over to pick up whichever archetype best suits how you want to do things.
Sentinel is obvious for survival, but Bastion is also pretty solid - especially once your dexterity and unarmed proficiency hit their caps.
Weapon archetypes are also an option, and a breath weapon doesn't touch MAP making for some solid interactions and attack routines.
It uses your spell DC, which is top tier 50% of the characters life and behind the curve the rest. Thats hardly abysmal.
More concepts -
Another concept that works great is the Denarians from the Dresden files, with Synthesis... ESPECIALLY if it gets buffed.
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So I was wondering what sort of cool new builds shamelessly inspired from other media. I had a few ideas but would like to hear other people's unquie takes with these mechanics
The bioshock summoner - little summoner, big daddy eidolon, this works from level 1 you have the life link, a drill is a reasonable option for a natural attack for your eidolon, the aquatic trait can be picked up at level 1 through evolution surge and the current eidiolon framework excel at a big strong thing without much sofistication and beast eidolons give you a big daddy charge and a spell list that eventually lets you do everything a plasmid can including summoning bees.
The persona user, you don't get to play a wild card (main character) persona user but for summoning your own ID from the conceptual world this class works well, your limited to more terrestrial concepts beasts and monsters rather than gods and devil's but you can make it work.
It works really well for doing some of the weaker characters from the series shamaman King.
So has anyone else found any interesting stretches for the summoner?
Well, first off I think you mean "Niche".
Grammar naziing aside, I had an idea of using the Royalty background and playing a princess and the dragon that kidnapped her. And by "Dragon" I mean dragon eidolon, and by "kidnapped" I mean ran away with.
Unless I missed something or looks like the DC on the eidolons abilities (dragons breath) will be abysmally low eventually with no way to make it relevant. It's part of why I wished the eidolons DC was the summoner's. Would give more reason to get into charisma for when you don't care to be a face summoner.It is by far eventually the best option for any variety of Dragon rider.
It costs you like 3 total lifetime feats for size and wings eventually, as all the super dragony stuff comes with the base form... this means you have a lot of feats left over to pick up whichever archetype best suits how you want to do things.
Sentinel is obvious for survival, but Bastion is also pretty solid - especially once your dexterity and unarmed proficiency hit their caps.
Weapon archetypes are also an option, and a breath weapon doesn't touch MAP making for some solid interactions and attack routines.
Ummm... It does use your DC.
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Well, first off I think you mean "Niche".
Grammar naziing aside, I had an idea of using the Royalty background and playing a princess and the dragon that kidnapped her. And by "Dragon" I mean dragon eidolon and by "kidnapped" I mean ran away with.
If you're starting at higher level, you could totally go the Knight Rider route with a Construct Eidolon.
You probably need Speed, Size, and maybe ranged attacks.
A car is one route, but im actually thinking of Princess Malya from Relic Knights in my head...
Unless I missed something or looks like the DC on the eidolons abilities (dragons breath) will be abysmally low eventually with no way to make it relevant. It's part of why I wished the eidolons DC was the summoner's. Would give more reason to get into charisma for when you don't care to be a face summoner.It is by far eventually the best option for any variety of Dragon rider.
It costs you like 3 total lifetime feats for size and wings eventually, as all the super dragony stuff comes with the base form... this means you have a lot of feats left over to pick up whichever archetype best suits how you want to do things.
Sentinel is obvious for survival, but Bastion is also pretty solid - especially once your dexterity and unarmed proficiency hit their caps.
Weapon archetypes are also an option, and a breath weapon doesn't touch MAP making for some solid interactions and attack routines.
It uses your spell DC, which is top tier 50% of the characters life and behind the curve the rest. Thats hardly abysmal.
More concepts -
Another concept that works great is the Denarians from the Dresden files, with Synthesis... ESPECIALLY if it gets buffed.
Does it? I must have missed. I'm reread but my understanding is that it used the face stats of the eidolon and therefore is terrible.
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From a fluff perspective I'll always lean jojo
Does it? I must have missed. I'm reread but my understanding is that it used the face stats of the eidolon and therefore is terrible.Unless I missed something or looks like the DC on the eidolons abilities (dragons breath) will be abysmally low eventually with no way to make it relevant. It's part of why I wished the eidolons DC was the summoner's. Would give more reason to get into charisma for when you don't care to be a face summoner.It is by far eventually the best option for any variety of Dragon rider.
It costs you like 3 total lifetime feats for size and wings eventually, as all the super dragony stuff comes with the base form... this means you have a lot of feats left over to pick up whichever archetype best suits how you want to do things.
Sentinel is obvious for survival, but Bastion is also pretty solid - especially once your dexterity and unarmed proficiency hit their caps.
Weapon archetypes are also an option, and a breath weapon doesn't touch MAP making for some solid interactions and attack routines.
It uses your spell DC, which is top tier 50% of the characters life and behind the curve the rest. Thats hardly abysmal.
More concepts -
Another concept that works great is the Denarians from the Dresden files, with Synthesis... ESPECIALLY if it gets buffed.
1d6 damage in the area you chose when your eidolon gained Breath Weapon with a basic reflex save against your spell DC.
Edit: Hard to use quotes; on my phone, but that's taken directly from the text under breath weapon.
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I'm hoping to be able to get a much lower level ability to scam people into thinking I'm a dragon using Synthesis. Druid has to wait ages to convincingly pretend to be a dragon, and needs to take ten minutes off every hour for it.
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I think the whole dragon rider concept is great and all but it comes online far to late for me to consider it for a 1-20 game. Whereas I can get my bioshock summoner off the ground from level 1 and scale it all the way 20.
I mean, at 9th level you can have a large dragon mount with a breath weapon and both iconic dragon "attacks" (Draconic Flurry and the recharge breath weapons on crit thing), and be flying around every encounter.
Can do it at 7th if you're willing to burn spell slots on the Flight.
That's not a terribly long time to wait in 2E - thats the last third of the second book in an AP.
You can totally go all "how to train your dragon" here.
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The only issue I can see lies in the shared HP pool.On the other hand, given the fact you can freely customize your eidolon appareance, it would be easy to recreate it.
It is a high exposure concept, but its actually a fantastic candidate for Multiclass Champion.
Take Champion Dedication at 2, Shield Block ay 3, and Champions Reaction as soon as you can fit it in and you can ensure that regardless of whether they target you or your eidolon, they're swinging into significant damage resistance. Especially if you can fit in Bastion down the road after you've take two feats from Champion, for Quick Block etc.
Not to mention, since you're Arcane List you have access to most of the really potent defensive spell options.
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Oh sorry, I meant to reply to siegfriedliner for the Bioshock idea.
I agree that your proposal is a good ( I thought a similar template with the champion dedication ), though I also share part of siegfriedliner ideas when it says that in order to have a proper dragon you have to reach some levels ( but this might be considered part of its growth ).
Ah, ok I can see that.
Yeah, the Bioshock thing is great. Obvious, easy, and solid to apply to problems.