Ranged evolution

[Verzen]

Quote:

RANGED EVOLUTION
EVOLUTION SUMMONER
Your eidolon has developed a ranged attack. Your eidolon
gains a ranged unarmed attack with a range increment of
30 feet that deals 1d6 damage and has the magical trait.
When you select this feat, choose a damage type from
acid, bludgeoning, cold, electricity, fire, negative, piercing,
positive, or slashing. If your eidolon is a celestial, fiend,
or monitor with an alignment other than true neutral, you
can instead choose a damage type in their alignment (for
example, you could choose good or lawful if your lawful good
angel eidolon gained this attack).

I see no reason why this can't be an option right from the start and just built into the Eidolons as a potential option for their various attacks. If a PC can pick up a bow at level 1, my Eidolon shouldn't need to wait till level 8 to do it.

[Verzen]

Quick Q - I've never played a ranged character in PF2. Do I need any modifiers (dex or str) to ranged attacks in PF2e?

[Invictus Novo]

Could not agree more! This bugs me as well, especially when they have the Dex to use it well enough. Then we should have the option through a feat or Conduit Spell to give it propulsive.

[KrispyXIV]

This is another item where you're not going to find much argument. This should be an option the first time you have a chance to pick one up.

[Xenocrat]

It’s not available early or cheaply because your runes apply to both melee and ranged options and you get a choice of damage type to avoid physical resistance.

[Verzen]

Xenocrat wrote:

It’s not available early or cheaply because your runes apply to both melee and ranged options and you get a choice of damage type to avoid physical resistance.

That should honestly be part of their niche. Being able to avoid physical resistance. If Eidolons are going to be "weaker" than they were in PF1e and basically slightly stronger than an AC, they should get something that makes them stand out. This sort of thing makes them stand out where, if I wanted to, I should be able to create an acid elemental at level 1 and attack things with acid attacks.

[Verzen]

I do not want just a reflavored AC. If I wanted an animal companion I can just be a ranger, druid, or beast master.

[Dubious Scholar]

Invictus Novo wrote:

Could not agree more! This bugs me as well, especially when they have the Dex to use it well enough. Then we should have the option through a feat or Conduit Spell to give it propulsive.

The current version at 8 is probably because that's when monks get it. And, well, I'd move the monk version earlier if I could too.

That said, this doesn't give agile propulsive ranged unarmed attacks. Or ignore cover and concealment.

I still think I'd put it at maybe level 4 at the earliest as written. I'd like a feat that chains off of it for some form of special attack at higher levels as well, to represent more of a barrage or explosion. Possibly a reflex save on like, a 5ft burst with a 1d4 cooldown against weapon damage?

Ranged unarmed has some particular quirks to it due to rune interactions and the switch-hitting potential. I do agree that a basic ranged option shouldn't take so long to come online.

[graystone]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

The current version at 8 is probably because that's when monks get it. And, well, I'd move the monk version earlier if I could too.

Yeah, and it's 7 levels after a Leshy can get a ranged unarmed attack.

If it's too too strong, give it a scaling range increment and increase damage type options as you level.

[Dubious Scholar]

graystone wrote:

Dubious Scholar wrote:

The current version at 8 is probably because that's when monks get it. And, well, I'd move the monk version earlier if I could too.

Yeah, and it's 7 levels after a Leshy can get a ranged unarmed attack.

If it's too too strong, give it a scaling range increment and increase damage type options as you level.

Leshy Seedpod is balanced by being very, very weak. If you're fine with 1d4 B with a 10ft increment? Sure, you can have it at level 1.

[TheGentlemanDM]

I think that d6 ranged (30 feet) is fine from 1st level provided you don't also have a strong melee attack.

Monks have a lot of melee presence from 1st level, which is why they mostly don't get ranged options until later.

Currently, Eidolons have a d8 melee, which is a pretty solid base that is being buffed.

If they had the ability to gain a d6 ranged alongside a d4 melee (and not get the d8 melee attack), would be fine.

[graystone]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Leshy Seedpod is balanced by being very, very weak. If you're fine with 1d4 B with a 10ft increment? Sure, you can have it at level 1.

Yeah, but the 8th level one is only 1 die higher and 30': it's NOT a huge leap. As I said it could easily scale from Seedpod levels to Ranged Evolution levels and/or given an Inproved Ranged Evolution feat to improve it at later levels.