Where the hell is my coffee!?

[thenobledrake]

KrispyXIV wrote:

Its probably in place to prevent the trivial fabrication of "silver bullet" type items overnight or the course of one day

That seems pretty clear to me, too. Just one more way in which the genuinely important consideration - how the game play is affected by a character investing in crafting - has been prioritized over less important considerations like that long, useless, buzzword that starts with a 'v' that only ever seems to get brought up in arguments to unbalance balanced mechanics or when discussing other useless buzzwords like "immersion"

[PossibleCabbage]

I think the solution is to make sure that someone who spends four days making arrows ends up creating an appropriate number of arrows for four day's work.

One thing that's worth noting is that modern people have much less leisure time built into their work days than medieval and renaissance folks did. It's possible the fletcher just blocks out their time with "okay first I'm going to make all the arrowheads and then call it a day, then I'm going to prepare the shafts then call that a day, then I'm going to procure the feathers then call that a day, then I'm going to assemble and I'm done!" The wise fletcher realizes that self-care is essential, after all.

So it's conceivable "it's going to take four days for your order" is as much a cultural thing (i.e. tradespeople won't work work work until they drop, and may have multiple jobs in parallel) as it is a practical thing.

[MaxAstro]

This is one of the few things I've house ruled, but I think for anyone bothered by it there is a simple house rule fix:

Just have Crafting start to reduce the cost of the item after the first day's work instead of the fourth.

Basically, the way I run it is "Crafting starts to reduce the cost of the item after the first day, and you can complete an item after it reaches half price or on the fourth day, whichever comes first."

It makes Crafting a little stronger, but not vastly stronger, and it means that experienced crafters can make very cheap items quickly.

Still, I mostly run it that way because one of my players is a goblin Junk Crafter who really wants to be able to quickly make cheap items as part of her character. If I had a party that cared less about Crafting, I probably would have stuck with the vanilla rules.

[AnimatedPaper]

Kasoh wrote:

Sure, if you're in an adventure about a group of heroes who are also supply mass markets with trade goods you might want to detail how that works

Yes. That's exactly what I meant when I was saying

Quote:

I'm not sure what kind of game would be useful to stick them into, but I'd have thought running a circus performance would be hard to fit in, and I was certainly incorrect there.

To repeat, this thread makes it clear that some players would be interested in something a bit more simulationist for crafting, even if the majority are unbothered by the lack. So an optional, simple, subsystem might be useful for those players.

Also, they mentioned that they are interested in making hardcovers that would act as "drop ins", hardcovers along the lines of Ultimate Intrigue or the Technology Guide that introduce several subsystems that expand existing rules for certain specific types of games, but that can be safely ignored for tables that are interested in such expansion. I would see expansion of the crafting rules to be something for such a book.

[Kennethray]

I'm fine with the current rules in our game. it works out well.. I just don't like that one skill covers all the different crafting types.

[Ventnor]

Kennethray wrote:

I'm fine with the current rules in our game. it works out well.. I just don't like that one skill covers all the different crafting types.

Just as a suggestion, you could remove crafting as a skill from your game and have its functions incorporated into the various Lore skills. For example, creating alchemical items would fall under Alchemical Lore, forging metal swords would be a function of Blacksmithing Lore, and so on and so forth.

[The-Magic-Sword]

I'm reminded that in HP Chamber of Secrets it took the party a handful of months to brew a single batch of an important potion, and even the parts of it that were explicitly crafting work (as opposed to getting the weirder ingredients) took multiple days, and even weeks to actually accomplish.

Personally, I don't think the 4 day minimum is an issue, given that you can craft consumables in batches in the first place. I think in the fiction of the world, magical potions aren't necessarily that easy to make. HP isn't Golarion (or our Pathfinder-based homebrew settings) but I don't think its unreasonable to view potions as something that can take serious time to create.

Core Rulebook Said wrote:

You can Craft items with the consumable trait in batches, making up to four of the same item at once with a single check. This requires you to include the raw materials for all the items in the batch at the start, and you must complete the batch all at once. You also Craft non-magical ammunition in batches, using the quantity listed in the Ranged Weapons table (typically 10).

https://2e.aonprd.com/Skills.aspx?ID=4

Note that this means those four days are actually for a batch of four potions, so if you're crafting, you're performing at an average of one potion per day. But it makes sense if the potion actually needs days of time to catalyze, or ingredients need to be added after large amounts of time pass.

[Elfteiroh]

Also, we already have example in APs of sections going “Players can do a craft check to make/repair X in about Y hours”... so yeah. Clearly some things are meant to be ruled outside of the base rules.

[AnimatedPaper]

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I'm reminded that in HP Chamber of Secrets it took the party a handful of months to brew a single batch of an important potion, and even the parts of it that were explicitly crafting work (as opposed to getting the weirder ingredients) took multiple days, and even weeks to actually accomplish.

There's also how many examples of potions being created in a single 4 hour class period?

You're not wrong about the polyjuice potion, but I'm not sure that fictional source as a whole supports the idea of crafting potions taking many days to steep or set before being ready.

[The-Magic-Sword]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I'm reminded that in HP Chamber of Secrets it took the party a handful of months to brew a single batch of an important potion, and even the parts of it that were explicitly crafting work (as opposed to getting the weirder ingredients) took multiple days, and even weeks to actually accomplish.

There's also how many examples of potions being created in a single 4 hour class period?

You're not wrong about the polyjuice potion, but I'm not sure that fictional source as a whole supports the idea of crafting potions taking many days to steep or set before being ready.

Its mentioned on occasion that Snape prepares things up to the stage he wants them to practice on beforehand, that some of the things that are brought up as being worked on do take multiple class periods "the class continued to work on..."

Truth Serum and Luck Potions are both also mentioned to be particularly nasty potions, with Felix (Luck) taking six months to create via textbook (Horace does it in two), and Veritaserum (Truth) taking one full lunar cycle of 28 days.

Thats all the HP universe of course, though I feel that I have seen it in other media-- its hard because many things that include potion making don't actually discuss how long it takes.

Either way, the base rate of one potion per day (given the production of four potions) doesn't seem ridiculous to me at all.

[Natan Linggod 327]

It's a pity the Fabricate spell doesn't exist any more.

That spell was fun with a craft focused mage