Hello.
I could not find it on the retraining page, nor threads.
For classes that get 1 new ability/tricks for every 6 spent points as FCB, what are the costs of retraining? I have a PC that is halfway with one of those, but with prospect of multi-classing, that 6/6 might not be completed.
These are not specifically mentioned on the retraining page.
Thanks in advance.
Hello.
I could not find it on the retraining page, nor threads.
For classes that get 1 new ability/tricks for every 6 spent points as FCB, what are the costs of retraining? I have a PC that is halfway with one of those, but with prospect of multi-classing, that 6/6 might not be completed.
These are not specifically mentioned on the retraining page.
Thanks in advance.
It seems like a FCB would fall under the category of class features. So, it would take 5 days per point you wish to re-assign. So, if you're 3/6 on a FCB by RAW it would take 15 days to re-assign all 3 points into something else.
However, since a FCB can be used to gain an extra HP. I would ask the DM if you could treat it as HP training in which case it would only take 3 days per point so 9 days to re-assign the 3 FCB points into something else.
I am not sure if you can retrain a favored class bonus. The section on class features specify what each class can retrain, and not all class features are listed. An oracle for example cannot retrain their mystery or curse. Technically you might be able to retrain your class and simply pick your original class.
Retraining the favored class bonus has some potential for abuse. A human wizard could choose the option of one spell in his book as his favored class bonus. He could then allow another caster to copy the spell into their book. After that he could retrain his favored class bonus to something else, maybe another spell. Then even if the retraining means he loses the spell from his book all he has to do is to copy it back from the other characters book. This means that a human wizard could end up with every wizard spell. This is probably why retraining spells are only allowed for spontaneous casters.
For those who don't go straight to the Archives...
Favored Class
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 31
Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level.
From here, we can easily extrapolate that the FCB cannot be changed once selected... probably doesn't matter if it's HP, skills, or 3/6 of a class feature...
Retraining the favored class bonus has some potential for abuse.
We actually went exactly 1 post in before abuse was suggested, given LordKallas suggested using the cost of replacing a HP because you can use it to gain a HP (even though you didn't) and you can also use it to gain a skill point (even though you didn't) and that's more expensive, but somehow THAT cost was skipped over.
In fact under the HP section there is simply the only mention of favoured bonuses and it doesnt allow you to change it, it implies that it is simply part of your new maximum and you adjust accordingly. Its locked in.
So yeah. No mention how, and clearly open for abuse by min maxers...
Answer is no. You're not given the option, so you can't do it.
Skill rank training could be higher or lower than hp training depending on your int stat. If you have an int modifier that is 3+ you could re-assign 3 skill points in 5 days. On the other hand if you have an int mod that is 1 or lower then it takes 15 days to reassign 3 points. It's a fair point that I should have at least mentioned the skill point retraining option but it's potential variable cost didn't seem like a good match for what the OP was trying to do.
I've always taken the presented list as examples of things you can retrain, not an absolute list. If it's an absolute list it means that in addition to a handful of base classes, none of the hybrid classes can retrain class levels or class abilities, since none of them are listed anywhere in the retraining rules. I mean, I assume that slayers can retrain slayer talents and that an arcanists can retrain exploits. As both of these are in line with what's listed for other classes.
Certainly the DM should be wary of potential abuse as always and should disallow something that would be disruptive regardless if it's allowed by the rules or not.
Is there ever a time when alternative racial traits are not allowed? I mean, aren't they allowed by default?
Wouldn't it be an exception for a GM to NOT allow alternative racial traits in the campaign?
Actually it is a lot cheaper than purchasing a spell. Consider a 12th level wizard using it to gain a 5th level spell. Assuming you have to retrain each spell separately that means the Wizard pays 600 gold for a 5th level spell. Purchasing a scroll and copying it into your book is going to cost you 1,375 gold for the same spell. If you have to copy it back to your book once you retrain that is raises the cost to 850 gold. That also takes 5 days.
The suggested time and cost for independent spell research is 1 week and at least 1,000 gold per level of the spell. So that same 5th level spell will take 2 extra days and cost 5,000 gold to research. 5days and only 600 gold sounds like a really good deal.
That is assuming there is a wizard who has the spell and is willing to let you copy it. In some cases the spell you want may not be readily available. If that is the case your only alternative is to research the spell and retraining is significantly cheaper than spell research.
|
that has to be the most expensive spell learning i've ever heard of and insanely time consuming.I am not sure if you can retrain a favored class bonus. The section on class features specify what each class can retrain, and not all class features are listed. An oracle for example cannot retrain their mystery or curse. Technically you might be able to retrain your class and simply pick your original class.
Retraining the favored class bonus has some potential for abuse. A human wizard could choose the option of one spell in his book as his favored class bonus. He could then allow another caster to copy the spell into their book. After that he could retrain his favored class bonus to something else, maybe another spell. Then even if the retraining means he loses the spell from his book all he has to do is to copy it back from the other characters book. This means that a human wizard could end up with every wizard spell. This is probably why retraining spells are only allowed for spontaneous casters.
For a Wizard, yes, but if you are a Witch, unless you are in a location with plenty of witches, it becomes interesting.
Or for a spontaneous spellcaster that wants a specific spell at a high caster level for a limited time.As an example, if you want to create a demiplane you can want to have Create demiplane and Permanency for some months when you have the downtime to make it, but probably you would exchange them for more useful spells at a later time.
You have the same problem with the feats that teach you extra spells.
Checking the retraining rules, it is possible to retrain spells only if you are a spontaneous spellcaster.
Now, this may sound a little odd, but what if you just retrained the whole class level back into itself? You are essentially losing the old FCB and the old class level just to gain it back and get to reselect the FCB.
I suggested that may be a way to get around the problem in my first post. Technically the retraining rules specify that you can retrain one level in a class into one level in another class. So RAW this would not be a legal choice, but a GM is free to house rule this anyway they like. I suppose you could retrain a level into another class, and then turn around and immediately retrain that level back into the original class, but that seems to be pretty cheesy to me. Personally I would not allow this in a game I am running.
|
|
If a character retrained into a level of a class he already had, I would require him to take again the original choices. He has other methods to retrain specific features, so he is only trying to game the system, either retraining something that can't be retrained or trying to weasel something that isn't normally possible.
If he trains into a different class I wouldn't have the spells he wrote in his spellbook disappear, as that doesn't seem logical. But if then return a level in a class with a spellbook that he already had, he will not get new spells.
Spontaneous spellcasters could get different spells, as they really lose the old spells. But spontaneous spellcasters have the option to retrain spells.