Hello, I am building a magus right now and have a rather simple question regarding these feats:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/moonlight-stalker-combat/
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/eldritch-assault/
I noticed the difference in wording in these feats regarding the concealment:
MS says "While you have concealment from an opponent...", while eldritch assault says: "Whenever you attack from total concealment provided by a magical source"
My question now is: what if the creature/enemy I am facing has Blindsight or something similar ? Since it ignores concealment (as far as I know) are both these feats disabled as well ? And if so, are they even worth it then, considering the steep requirements (especially MS)?
Thank you all in advance.
Scorn of the Moo wrote: My question now is: what if the creature/enemy I am facing has Blindsight or something similar ? Since it ignores concealment (as far as I know) are both these feats disabled as well ? Yes. If their Blindsight works on you, and you don't get your Concealment, then you don't get to use those Feats.
Scorn of the Moo wrote: And if so, are they even worth it then, considering the steep requirements (especially MS)? I think probably so. I don't think creatures with Blindsight are all that common. And how were you intending to achieve Concealment to begin with? If you are really worried about Blindsight, then consider learning Dirty Trick Feats. Dirty Tricks can Blind your Opponents, but they can Deafen them as well. If you are up against a creature with Blindsight or Blindsense, if you Blind and Deafen them, you probably have negated their Blindsight.
Getting good with Dirty Tricks is Feat-intensive as well: Combat Expertise, Improved Dirty Trick, Greater Dirty Trick, Quick Dirty Trick, but you can use them to impose a wide variety of Conditions on your opponent; there is no Size limit like there is with Bull Rush and Trip, and with Quick Dirty Trick, you can do it in place of a regular attack instead of a Standard Action.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Scorn of the Moo wrote: My question now is: what if the creature/enemy I am facing has Blindsight or something similar ? Since it ignores concealment (as far as I know) are both these feats disabled as well ? Yes. If their Blindsight works on you, and you don't get your Concealment, then you don't get to use those Feats.
Scorn of the Moo wrote: And if so, are they even worth it then, considering the steep requirements (especially MS)? I think probably so. I don't think creatures with Blindsight are all that common. And how were you intending to achieve Concealment to begin with? If you are really worried about Blindsight, then consider learning Dirty Trick Feats. Dirty Tricks can Blind your Opponents, but they can Deafen them as well. If you are up against a creature with Blindsight or Blindsense, if you Blind and Deafen them, you probably have negated their Blindsight.
Getting good with Dirty Tricks is Feat-intensive as well: Combat Expertise, Improved Dirty Trick, Greater Dirty Trick, Quick Dirty Trick, but you can use them to impose a wide variety of Conditions on your opponent; there is no Size limit like there is with Bull Rush and Trip, and with Quick Dirty Trick, you can do it in place of a regular attack instead of a Standard Action. Thank you very much for your detailed answer. As far as the source of the concealment goes, my plan was simply casting blur (or on higher levels maybe displacement) on myself, or maybe have a familiar with a wand do it. Although I am not sure if this is wise given the need to cast it at the start of every combat instead of buffs like Mirror Image or the like.
Note that share spells works one way only - your familiar can't cast personal spells on you. Nor does it work from a wand.
I agree with Scott above. I'd be surprised if you have the feats for the moonlight stalker line and for dirty tricks as a magus though, that combo wants you to be a fighter or warpriest.
there are some concealment effects that can't be negated by blindsight.
my fev is l lightning stnace which is basically moving too fast to be hit.
to be usable is a different matter. (i go with deft catcher+fast getaway then drop& catch item for a move action withdrawal, leave standard action to fight while getting lightning stance on)
zza ni wrote: there are some concealment effects that can't be negated by blindsight. Could you explain how that works?
Blindsight negates concealment, and Lightning Stance grants you concealment. I couldn't find any FAQ stating otherwise so it seems like it's negated.
it is clear from blindsight that it negate the need for vision and basickly only thwart visual effects.
for example:
"blindsight, the extraordinary ability to use a non-visual sense (or a combination senses) to operate effectively without vision. Such senses may include sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent, keen hearing, or echolocation. This makes invisibility and concealment (even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature (though it still can’t see ethereal creatures).
..
Blinding attacks do not penalize creatures that use blindsight.
..
"
and that concealment not based on vision thwart it (like being ethereal)
the concealment from lightning stance is not a visual effect (first off, nothing in it suggest it IS a visual effect. like in other concealment, such as invisibility, darkness or blur)
and also the fluff text support it.
"The speed at which you move makes it nearly impossible for opponents to strike you."
isn't concealment by definition a visual effect?
Line of Sight wrote: A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment).
avr wrote: Note that share spells works one way only - your familiar can't cast personal spells on you. Nor does it work from a wand.
I agree with Scott above. I'd be surprised if you have the feats for the moonlight stalker line and for dirty tricks as a magus though, that combo wants you to be a fighter or warpriest.
That is most certainly true, feats are going to be very tight. As far as I understand, blur from a wand should work though - the range is creature touched, not personal. I also wanted to go hexcrafter for easy access to blindness/deafness as well as bestow curse, which could help negate blindsight relying on hearing and the like.
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