So I'll start with the trait Accelerated Drinker. I will provide it's rules and it's flavor text(with emphasis.) Normally I wouldn't involve the flavor text but I find that it seems to contradict the actual rules a bit. Not that it'll likely matter on ruling I just thought it was a funny little quirk of the trait.
"Accelerated Drinker:
You know how to drink a potion efficiently, such as by *not* using your hands, tossing it in the air and catching it in your mouth, or opening it with your teeth.
Benefit: You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard action as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand."
Now I will add the racial trait Prehensile Tail from the Vanara stat block.
"Prehensile Tail:
A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action."
So clearly accelerated drinker is designed to be primed. You need to decide what potion you are going to use prior to using the trait to drink it as a move action. What I want to know is can I use the Prehensile Tail on turn 1 to grab a potion as a swift action, then on turn 2 use Accelerated Drinker to imbibe that potion as a move action? If so do I need to state that the tail places the potion in my hand or is that assumed to be the case given that the item is "retrieved." Does placing it in my hand count as another action all together?
Why would you need to place the potion in your hands when it is already in your tail? Prehensile Tail allows you to manipulate object, just not wield weapons. This is probably due to the fact that the tail of a monkey (Varna) is not as strong as its arms, and lacks the leverage to use your full body weight to the weapon. I am not even sure you need accelerated drinker with prehensile tail to drink a potion.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: Why would you need to place the potion in your hands when it is already in your tail? Prehensile Tail allows you to manipulate object, just not wield weapons. This is probably due to the fact that the tail of a monkey (Varna) is not as strong as its arms, and lacks the leverage to use your full body weight to the weapon. I am not even sure you need accelerated drinker with prehensile tail to drink a potion. I "need" it to be in my hand because accelerated drinker says it has to be in my hand at the start of my turn. Granted the rules for this trait likely didn't factor in tailed races when it was made. That's why I'm asking about it.
Also yes I could drink the potion without accelerated drinker or prehensile tail. But I would have to use a move action (at best) to retrieve the potion and then a standard action to drink it. I would rather it cost me a swift action on turn 1 and a move action on turn 2. Leaving me a standard action on both turns.
What it really comes down to is what is considered a hand? The vast majority of races don’t have any other limb that can manipulate objects, but some do and that should be factored in when looking at feats. What if the race in question has tentacles instead of arms and does not have any hands? Does that mean those cannot cast spells with somatic components? Even the Varna usually do not have limbs other than hands that can manipulate items. A prehensile tail should count as a hand for anything except for using weapon, because that was specifically excluded.
If you start out with the potion in tail and have accelerated you can drink it as move action.
by raw. tail=tail hand=hand. no.
personally i have always hated accelerated drinker trait's rule of it has to be in your hand at the start of the turn. it makes what could have been an ok trait into a ok trait but only for a few fighting styles.
vhok wrote: by raw. tail=tail hand=hand. no.
personally i have always hated accelerated drinker trait's rule of it has to be in your hand at the start of the turn. it makes what could have been an ok trait into a ok trait but only for a few fighting styles.
just use a spring loaded wrist sheath and put it in you hand as a swift action at the end of a previous turn or walk around with a potion in your hand everywhere
Name Violation wrote: vhok wrote: by raw. tail=tail hand=hand. no.
personally i have always hated accelerated drinker trait's rule of it has to be in your hand at the start of the turn. it makes what could have been an ok trait into a ok trait but only for a few fighting styles.
just use a spring loaded wrist sheath and put it in you hand as a swift action at the end of a previous turn or walk around with a potion in your hand everywhere So what are your thoughts on having it being retrieved by the tail an placed in the hand turn 1 so that it's primed for turn 2? Or would that placement be a whole separate action?
Maybe I am too lax, but if you dedicate your Combat Trait to Accelerated Drinker, I just let you drink potions as a move action. I honestly don't even care where they came from, if you had them in your hand or not.
Name Violation wrote: vhok wrote: by raw. tail=tail hand=hand. no.
personally i have always hated accelerated drinker trait's rule of it has to be in your hand at the start of the turn. it makes what could have been an ok trait into a ok trait but only for a few fighting styles.
just use a spring loaded wrist sheath and put it in you hand as a swift action at the end of a previous turn or walk around with a potion in your hand everywhere what if you two-weapon fight? drop the other weapon? double up in 1 hand?
two-handed weapon, can't make AOO's if you take off a hand to hold a potion
basically unless your combat style involves you having 1 hand free at all times this does not work. remember also slashing grace won't work if you carry around a potion. it is such a bad trait with the caveat of having the potion in hand at the start of the round.
If you use your swift action to draw a potion, and a free action to transfer it from the tail to a hand I don't see why you need to wait an entire round to drink the potion. Just burn your move action and drink.
I do think you need a free hand to drink a potion, but the whole part of starting the turn with the potion in hand seems irrelevant. If someone spent a standard action to get a potion from a backpack, I'd let them drink the potion with a move if they have Accelerated Drinker now instead of waiting until next round.
Meirril wrote: If you use your swift action to draw a potion, and a free action to transfer it from the tail to a hand I don't see why you need to wait an entire round to drink the potion. Just burn your move action and drink.
I do think you need a free hand to drink a potion, but the whole part of starting the turn with the potion in hand seems irrelevant. If someone spent a standard action to get a potion from a backpack, I'd let them drink the potion with a move if they have Accelerated Drinker now instead of waiting until next round.
you have to wait because the trait says you do. if they just wanted to make it a move action they would have just done that.
vhok wrote: Meirril wrote: If you use your swift action to draw a potion, and a free action to transfer it from the tail to a hand I don't see why you need to wait an entire round to drink the potion. Just burn your move action and drink.
I do think you need a free hand to drink a potion, but the whole part of starting the turn with the potion in hand seems irrelevant. If someone spent a standard action to get a potion from a backpack, I'd let them drink the potion with a move if they have Accelerated Drinker now instead of waiting until next round.
you have to wait because the trait says you do. if they just wanted to make it a move action they would have just done that. And if you want to make it a move action, you can just do that.
I run Accelerated Drinker as exactly that. Drinking potions and similar crap is a move action. You bought the ticket, I let you take the ride.
Thusfar, no Paizo gestapo has shown up to correct me. No divine bolt of lightning has struck me to punish me for this sin.
VoodistMonk wrote: vhok wrote: Meirril wrote: If you use your swift action to draw a potion, and a free action to transfer it from the tail to a hand I don't see why you need to wait an entire round to drink the potion. Just burn your move action and drink.
I do think you need a free hand to drink a potion, but the whole part of starting the turn with the potion in hand seems irrelevant. If someone spent a standard action to get a potion from a backpack, I'd let them drink the potion with a move if they have Accelerated Drinker now instead of waiting until next round.
you have to wait because the trait says you do. if they just wanted to make it a move action they would have just done that. And if you want to make it a move action, you can just do that.
I run Accelerated Drinker as exactly that. Drinking potions and similar crap is a move action. You bought the ticket, I let you take the ride.
Thusfar, no Paizo gestapo has shown up to correct me. No divine bolt of lightning has struck me to punish me for this sin. of course house rules are allowed, however this is the rules forum. we speak in raw here. when someone comes here to ask a question its because they want to know the raw, if they just wanted to make something up they don't come here.
vhok wrote: Name Violation wrote: vhok wrote: by raw. tail=tail hand=hand. no.
personally i have always hated accelerated drinker trait's rule of it has to be in your hand at the start of the turn. it makes what could have been an ok trait into a ok trait but only for a few fighting styles.
just use a spring loaded wrist sheath and put it in you hand as a swift action at the end of a previous turn or walk around with a potion in your hand everywhere what if you two-weapon fight? drop the other weapon? double up in 1 hand?
two-handed weapon, can't make AOO's if you take off a hand to hold a potion
basically unless your combat style involves you having 1 hand free at all times this does not work. remember also slashing grace won't work if you carry around a potion. it is such a bad trait with the caveat of having the potion in hand at the start of the round. You seem to be fixated on builds. So allow me to clear up that having a free hand to have the potion dropped into will never be a problem for my Sorcerer. What still hasn't been made clear to me is: Can I drop it in my hand with the tail on the same turn it's retrieved as a swift action.
Looking at other instances of this Prehensile tails (such as Grasping Tail (Tiefling) it would appear that you can so far in as RAI. Why one race has to take a feat for the same benefit is beyond me but this is Paizo. I also guess monkey's are more commonly known to get up to "tail antics" so maybe that was the logic behind it.
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moving from the tail to the hand is a free action, so yes you can do it on the same turn. you can't drink as a move action till the next turn however because it was not in your hand when your turn began. if its not an issue to have a potion in hand then just carry it around at all times in your hand. you could also have 1 at all times in your tail and move-drink free-switch the other potion to your hand then swift grab another potion, effectively allowing you to drink a potion every round for a move+swift
Yeah, accelerated drinker specifies 'You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.' So long as you're doing RAW that's it, tails won't much help.
avr wrote: Yeah, accelerated drinker specifies 'You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.' So long as you're doing RAW that's it, tails won't much help. Well it helps prime it as a swift action turn 1 if you didn't have it in your hand already. Exploring that was the whole point of the OP and discussion. I believe we found our answer. Unless you think placing the potion from tail to hand isn't part of it's retrieval.
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