Why isn't the Meteor Hammer a monk weapon?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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The Meteor hammer is a Shaolin weapon. It makes no sense it isn't a monk weapon.


The weirdest part about it is that the stats imply that not only does every fighter know how to use one, but that it's widely used enough to not be uncommon or advanced. Which is the opposite of what the meteor hammer is, being a fairly dangerous and unorthodox weapon that requires a lot of very specific training and mastery to use even safely.

It is nice that it is far less obtrusive to get cool, weird weapons that make for flashier characters, but if there is going to be make a distinction about common and uncommon weapons, that's one that I would think fits the bill.


Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

The weirdest part about it is that the stats imply that not only does every fighter know how to use one, but that it's widely used enough to not be uncommon or advanced. Which is the opposite of what the meteor hammer is, being a fairly dangerous and unorthodox weapon that requires a lot of very specific training and mastery to use even safely.

It is nice that it is far less obtrusive to get cool, weird weapons that make for flashier characters, but if there is going to be make a distinction about common and uncommon weapons, that's one that I would think fits the bill.

Exactly and they don;t even have the rope dart which is basically the same thing except it has a dagger/blade on the end of the rope instead.


The spiked chain has uncommon and Zon-Kuthon with an entire nation dedicated to his worship has it as his favoured weapon. Why meteor hammers are more common than a functionally probably fairly similar weapon is very odd and I have to wonder if it simply was a mistake.


The only reason I can see is that a 1d8 reach weapon that can flurry could be a bit unbalanced but I doubt that.


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Hey, don't look too closely at the Meteor hammer and get it errata'd out of PFS sanctioning. My fighter needs it. It's basically his identity. He's the guy with a meteor hammer.


RicoTheBold wrote:
Hey, don't look too closely at the Meteor hammer and get it errata'd out of PFS sanctioning. My fighter needs it. It's basically his identity. He's the guy with a meteor hammer.

I want it for my monk but the traditional monk weapon is useless on the monk because it isn't a monk weapon. so yes it needs errata

Verdant Wheel

Argol wrote:
The only reason I can see is that a 1d8 reach weapon that can flurry could be a bit unbalanced but I doubt that.

Compare to Bo Staff


I guess because it's quite a strong martial weapon so they didn't want to give it to the monk.


rainzax wrote:
Argol wrote:
The only reason I can see is that a 1d8 reach weapon that can flurry could be a bit unbalanced but I doubt that.
Compare to Bo Staff

flail group vs club.

Disarm + Backswing vs Parry.

I think it's mostly because of the flail group ( backswing is definitely good, but I am not sure it's a feature that could be used with flurry of blows ).

...

out of all simply weapons, and monk weapons, the only one with flail/hammer type is the "poi" weapon, which has no reach and 1d4 damage.

So imo their intent is even more clear.


Answer: Power creep...


I don't see how. you would give up your stance just to gain reach and trip. otherwise Stances offer everything else.


Argol wrote:
I don't see how. you would give up your stance just to gain reach and trip. otherwise Stances offer everything else.

You got me wrong. For the monk, no, but by not making this a monk weapon or uncommon you are more or less power creeping other comparable CRB martial weapons.


Not sure about monks, since I didn't have a chance to play them, but for sure the more I proceed, the more I see reach as top priority with any melee class ( eventually, you could consider to dual wield and using a thrown weapon as secondary one ).

In terms of action management, reach allows you to:

- Save actions
- Trigger more AOO
- Maximise your paladin reaction ( 10 reach + 5 step from ranged reprisal )

Since monks have flurry of blows, as well for stances, they could decide not to use reach weapons, but having reach given this specific system is always worth it ( and the more you proceed, given larger creatures with 10/15/20 reach, the better ).

...

Also, using the parry feature ( Bo staff ) requires an interaction action, which exposes you to AOOs.

And for what concerns the critical specializations, well... the difference between pushing somebody or getting it prone with

1) -2 to all attacks
2) flat footed

is way above pushing it away.
There is not even the slightly comprarison.


Ubertron_X wrote:
Argol wrote:
I don't see how. you would give up your stance just to gain reach and trip. otherwise Stances offer everything else.
You got me wrong. For the monk, no, but by not making this a monk weapon or uncommon you are more or less power creeping other comparable CRB martial weapons.

Fauchard still blows this out of the water.


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The thing is. making the meteor hammer a monk weapon only really offers trip and reach. Stances can basically do everything else. and at lvl 8 you can even make unarmed attacks at a 30ft range if you pick up the wind stance. So it just seems needlessly cruel to deny the monk class a weapon that is clearly a monk weapon. Sure I am a bit salty that I couldn;t use it with my Dancing monk themed build. I would have combined the Dancer's scarf with meteor hammer and Bladed scarf.

It would have flavored my whole combat around dancing about the battlefield bombarding enemies with a Versatile weapon and gaining concealment while trying to use fascinating performance.

The idea of this battle dancer is such a fun concept and monk is the best chassis for it. So instead I went martial arts ballerina because I couldn't use the meteor hammer. Going Crane stance route made for good flavour of doing things like graceful jumps (I had to flavor crane strikes as pirouette kicks) Crane flutter is basically dancing and twirling about to avoid attack in the same motion as a kick. But I just think a scarfe dancer would have looked a bit more plausible.


Argol wrote:
So instead I went martial arts ballerina because I couldn't use the meteor hammer. Going Crane stance route made for good flavour of doing things like graceful jumps (I had to flavor crane strikes as pirouette kicks) Crane flutter is basically dancing and twirling about to avoid attack in the same motion as a kick.

Is his name Bon Kurei?


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Ubertron_X wrote:
Argol wrote:
I don't see how. you would give up your stance just to gain reach and trip. otherwise Stances offer everything else.
You got me wrong. For the monk, no, but by not making this a monk weapon or uncommon you are more or less power creeping other comparable CRB martial weapons.

Having the monk trait doesn't prevent other classes from using it. Anyone trained in martial weapons can use a bo staff because it's not uncommon. Besides, it's been said over and over again by the devs that rarity doesn't have an impact on power.


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I'm okay with it being martial, at least. It is essentially a ball on a chain and soft weapons are not always advanced liked in PF1.

Concerning the monk trait, I have a sneaking suspicion that there might be more support for weapon wielding monks in the APG. Possibly a feat that allows you to add the monk trait to specific weapons. This would allow monks to use a wider arrange of weapons without having to print monk versions of every weapon or introduce power creep.

Sovereign Court

It's not necessarily a good reason, but meteor hammers weren't a monk weapon in PF1 either.


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RicoTheBold wrote:
Hey, don't look too closely at the Meteor hammer and get it errata'd out of PFS sanctioning. My fighter needs it. It's basically his identity. He's the guy with a meteor hammer.

Are you talking about PFS2 or PFS1 sanctioning? I just double checked all the sanctioning docs for PFS2 and its not called out as restricted or limited.


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NielsenE wrote:
RicoTheBold wrote:
Hey, don't look too closely at the Meteor hammer and get it errata'd out of PFS sanctioning. My fighter needs it. It's basically his identity. He's the guy with a meteor hammer.
Are you talking about PFS2 or PFS1 sanctioning? I just double checked all the sanctioning docs for PFS2 and its not called out as restricted or limited.

Second edition PFS. I created my fighter right after the sanctioning of Gods & Magic, so he's had a meteor hammer since he was created.

My joke was that it's already a really good weapon, so changing to add monk traits would make it better, and if it's better they might go, "yeah, this should be uncommon or advanced" or something, and then my fighter would be sad.

He'd be like Sokka without his boomerang.

Except it's a meteor hammer with the weight in the shape of a skull, typically with light cast on it, and it only took me 5 levels of using it as my target for light to realize it should be in the shape of a skull and named Will o' Wisp.


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Ahh I missed the hypothetical/joke aspect.

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