The monk's AC Bonus ability states, "When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD."
The scaled fist archetype states, "Any of the scaled fist’s class abilities that make calculations based on their Wisdom (including bonus feats with DCs or uses per day, such as Stunning Fist, but not Wisdom-based skills or Will saving throws) are instead based on their Charisma." Therefore, the monk's AC Bonus ability adds their Charisma modifier (if any) to AC instead of Wisdom.
A Nature Oracle's Nature's Mysteries ability states, "You may add your Charisma modifier, instead of your Dexterity modifier, to your Armor Class and CMD."
My question is, does the Nature's Whispers ability stack with the Scaled Fist monk's AC Bonus ability and provide Charisma to AC twice, once as another form of the bonus from Dexterity and once as a bonus from an ability, or do they count as the same kind of bonus and only one can be used?
Both are the unnamed 'ability bonus' type and do not stack, per FAQ.
Both are the unnamed 'ability bonus' type and do not stack, per FAQ.
That is unfortunate. Thank you for the clarification.
In general, when you see a combination of abilities that might interest you, it doesn't stack. That's the feeling of some people that has been made into a FAQ for easy referring. With the flimsy excuse of "source"-ing untyped bonus to the ability score it mentions. Note that the wording might cause you to lose effectiveness instead: when the first ability says "are instead", you don't have a choice and must use Cha instead of Wis. If the second said the same instead of "you may", you'd be shafted of your Dex to AC, without adding your Charisma/Wisdom/whatever. Or you check with your local GM to rule-0 this out (although it's not a rule... it's an explanation of intentions that were never clear to begin with).
Both are the unnamed 'ability bonus' type and do not stack, per FAQ.Are you sure about that? Because Monk's ability allows to add CHA modifier on top of the usual AC (including DEX bonus). And Oracle's ability replaces the DEX bonus in the basic AC.
Sounds like two different parts of AC (like Armor class and Natural armor both can have enchantment bonus).
Yes, that was discussed to death at the time this change came out. However you come by the same ability score added to something twice (including one of the copies of the ability bonus coming from a replacement), if there's no bonus type given it adds to that something just once.
the monk ac from wis is untayped (AS far as i can tell) while the normal dex for ac bonus is dodge bonus (lost when ff for example) so using cha to replace both would give untayped ac bonus equal to cha bonus and dodge ac bonus equal to cha bonus. since they are difrent ac bonus id say they stack.
EDIT : seem like i was wrong, while you lose the dex bonus when you lose dodge bonus, it seem like the dex bonus is untayped as well. so not stacking..
If you want to add your Charisma bonus a second time, look at Osyluth Guile.
Benefit: While you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, select one opponent. Add your Charisma bonus to your AC as a dodge bonus against that opponent’s melee attacks until your next turn. You cannot use this feat if you cannot see the selected opponent.