I am a human cleric and I would like for my 3rd level to pick the Ancestral Paragon general feat which grants me access to an ancestry feat of my choice. I am interested in Arcane Tattoos feat, which states:
"Choose one of the following schools of magic: abjuration (shield), conjuration (tanglefoot), enchantment (daze), evocation (electric arc), illusion (ghost sound), necromancy (chill touch), or transmutation (sigil). You can cast the associated cantrip (listed in parentheses) as an innate arcane spell at will."
I am having trouble understanding if I have to use an existing cantrip slot or if I gain one extra cantrip slot reserved for the spell I choose (e.g. electric arc).
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The relevant rules are Chapter 7: Spells / Innate Spells (Core Rulebook pg. 302)
A couple of key things to note:
- Arcane Tatoos is an Uncommon feat, so check with your GM before making any further plans.
- Per the feat text, these are Arcane spells rather than the Divine spells you normally cast, so they will have a different proficiency (per the Innate Spells rules, you start out Trained but never really improve from there).
- Per the Innate Spells rules, you will use Charisma as your casting stat rather than the Wisdom you use for your Cleric spells.
Thank you Jared Walter, I had forgotten that there are special rules concering innate spells. So, since it states "You can cast [...] at will", does this mean I can cast it as often as I wish (instead of e.g. once per day)?
Something else; in core rulebook, it states "You use your Charisma modifier as your spellcasting ability modifier for innate spells unless otherwise specified". Does this also apply to me, even if I am a cleric and my spellcasting ability modifier is Wisdom?
Finally (God I am a glutton for -I really hope not too obvious- questions), since it states that "You also can’t heighten innate spells", I believe this also applies to me, since the description of Arcane Tattoos feats mentions that I cast the associated cantrip spell as an innate arcane spell, right?
Jeez I didn't notice that while I was typing my reply, new answers had been posted. Thank you Taja, it seems you have covered all my points. And thanks pauljathome for your suggestions, I will look it up.
Per the feat text, these are Arcane spells rather than the Divine spells you normally cast, so they will have a different proficiency (per the Innate Spells rules, you start out Trained but never really improve from there).
Note that there has been some contention over this:
The rules for innate spells say that if you're expert or higher in spell attacks and DCs, you apply that to your innate spells as well. There's been some debate over whether or not this is supposed to be limited along tradition lines or not, because that bit of rules text doesn't mention casting tradition at all.
I believe this also applies to me, since the description of Arcane Tattoos feats mentions that I cast the associated cantrip spell as an innate arcane spell, right?
Innate Cantrips automatically heighten as normal for cantrips, per the same rule reference Taja linked.
Innate spells arguably don't have spell components either, which means they're less likely to provoke. So that could be one plus in their favor.
Innate spells arguably don't have spell components either, which means they're less likely to provoke. So that could be one plus in their favor.
That would be cool, but I haven't seen any text suggesting that Innate Spells don't have components.
Innate spells arguably don't have spell components either, which means they're less likely to provoke. So that could be one plus in their favor.That would be cool, but I haven't seen any text suggesting that Innate Spells don't have components.
I've seen a number of people arguing it rather convincingly here on the forums. It wasn't airtight, but it did seem like there was some evidence for it.
Sorry, I don't recall the particulars. If I find it, I'll link it here.
As I recall the argument is essentially that the ability to Cast A Spell and provide material components are given to you by spellcasting classes. The Wizard gains Cast A Spell and the ability to provide verbal, material and somatic components as part of their spellcasting feature.
People with only Innate spells, therefore, don't have the ability to provide components... so their spells can't have components, otherwise they couldn't cast them.
That was it. Thanks for jogging my memory.
Of course, quite a few people argued against it too as I recall, citing that if you don't use the Cast a Spell action to use innate spells, then what did you use? They argued that you can't just ignore one spellcasting rule, while allowing the others; that, logically, it should be all or nothing.
Both sides had valid points.
I for one like to think innate spells don't have components, as it makes them more unique and worthwhile (while not making them overpowered).
As I recall the argument is essentially that the ability to Cast A Spell and provide material components are given to you by spellcasting classes. The Wizard gains Cast A Spell and the ability to provide verbal, material and somatic components as part of their spellcasting feature.
People with only Innate spells, therefore, don't have the ability to provide components... so their spells can't have components, otherwise they couldn't cast them.
I would think this text would cover that.
Innate Spells
Certain spells are natural to your character, typically coming from your ancestry or a magic item rather than your class. You can cast your innate spells even if you aren’t a member of a spellcasting class.
...and comes down to that text on page 444 that a lot of people on this forum seem to have an aversion to.
Less an aversion and more that, as this forum has shown time and time again, one person's "too good to be true" is another person's "meh, not very special."
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Finally (God I am a glutton for -I really hope not too obvious- questions), since it states that "You also can’t heighten innate spells", I believe this also applies to me, since the description of Arcane Tattoos feats mentions that I cast the associated cantrip spell as an innate arcane spell, right?
As mentioned by others, innate CANTRIPS automatically heighten unless otherwise specified (presumably in the feat).
BUT, I did want to note that for innate SPELLS (not cantrips), the rule is (see Taja's link):
"You also can’t heighten innate spells, but some abilities that grant innate spells might give you the spell at a higher level than its base level or change the level at which you cast the spell."
For example: The Gnomes's Natural Illusionist feat gives you the ability to cast, 1/day, one of three illusion spells and the feat specifically states - "At 7th level, the spell is heightened to 2nd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the spell is heightened an additional spell level." This seems to fall under the "some abilities that grant innate spells might ... change the level at which you cast the spell" part of the innate spells rule.
By comparison, the Human's Ornate Tattoo feat does not contain any language that heightens (or allows you to heighten) the spell you get. So the default Innate Spells rule kicks in and the spell is a Level 1 spell with no heightening.
Thanks guys. I have to admit though, I got a little confused with the distinction between innate cantrips and innate spells. As far as Arcane Tattoos feat is concerned, are the spells mentioned considered innate cantrips of innate arcane spells?
Either way, I understand that they are cast by taking Charisma modifier into consideration, rather than e.g. Wisdom for clerics.
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...By comparison, the Human's Ornate Tattoo feat does not contain any language that heightens (or allows you to heighten) the spell you get. So the default Innate Spells rule kicks in and the spell is a Level 1 spell with no heightening.
Nope, innate cantrips auto-heighten as normal:
Certain spells are natural to your character, typically coming from your ancestry or a magic item rather than your class. You can cast your innate spells even if you aren’t a member of a spellcasting class. The ability that gives you an innate spell tells you how often you can cast it—usually once per day—and its magical tradition. Innate spells are refreshed during your daily preparations. Innate cantrips are cast at will and automatically heightened as normal for cantrips (see Cantrips on page 300) unless otherwise specified.
You’re always trained in spell attack rolls and spell DCs for your innate spells, even if you aren’t otherwise trained in spell attack rolls or spell DCs. If your proficiency in spell attack rolls or spell DCs is expert or better, apply that proficiency to your innate spells, too. You use your Charisma modifier as your spellcasting ability modifier for innate spells unless otherwise specified.
If you have an innate spell, you can cast it, even if it’s not of a spell level you can normally cast. This is especially common for monsters, which might be able to cast innate spells far beyond what a character of the same level could use.
You can’t use your spell slots to cast your innate spells, but you might have an innate spell and also be able to prepare or cast the same spell through your class. You also can’t heighten innate spells, but some abilities that grant innate spells might give you the spell at a higher level than its base level or change the level at which you cast the spell.
Thanks guys. I have to admit though, I got a little confused with the distinction between innate cantrips and innate spells. As far as Arcane Tattoos feat is concerned, are the spells mentioned considered innate cantrips of innate arcane spells?
They are both Innate Cantrips and Innate Spells. Innate Cantrips are a special type of Innate Spell. (Note that the text that Taja the Barbarian quotes above is taken from the Innate Spells section.) An analogy is that a square is both a square and a rectangle because squares are a special category of rectangle.