Dancing weapons and size change

[NotBruce23]

Our group has just reach level 20 and we just received a stupid amount of money. I play a dragon blooded sorcerer that is strength-based using form of Dragon 3 I was looking at getting a dancing weapon to give me extra attacks. Does the size of the dancing weapon change as I transform into a huge dragon?

[Chell Raighn]

No. Any objects that leave your possession while under the effect of something that altered your size reverts to its original size. A dancing weapon while still considered an attended object does still leave your possession, as such it reverts to its original size. Additionally, since form of the dragon is a polymorph effect, you would have to release the weapon (start the dancing effect) prior to activating FotD, otherwise it is merged into your form for the duration... which means the weapon was never in your possession when activation the size change effect in the first place.

[Meirril]

Transmutation: Polymorph wrote:

When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body.

Well, if for some reason your weapon didn't meld into your body then yes it would grow with you. But as soon as you let go of the weapon it would shrink back to its normal size. So even if you used Enlarge Person as soon as your sword dances it would lose the size increase.

Also, Dragons can't wield weapons. If you look at the table for Magic Item Slots for Animals they should fall under quadraped with claws. These sort of creatures can't grasp items. Dragons only gain proficency with weapons when they have abilities to transform into humanoids. That implies that in their native form, they can't use weapons and they only learn when they can take on an appropriate form.

Like a biped with hands.

[NotBruce23]

I guess that leads me to another question do I still suffer size penalty for a huge dancing weapon if I'm normal size

[Meirril]

NotBruce23 wrote:

I guess that leads me to another question do I still suffer size penalty for a huge dancing weapon if I'm normal size

Dancing says the weapons attack only uses your BAB while it dances, so no there would be no penalty for size while it dances. There would also be no bonuses from strength or any feats, or spells. A dancing weapon only uses BAB.

[NotBruce23]

So basically a waste of gold with my 10 BAB I will not hit anything.

[RAWmonger]

Dancing weapons are huge garbo waste of money. See my post on it here for our previous conversation about why they're so bad:

Dancing Weapon Damage

[Chell Raighn]

Yea... Dancing weapons really is a trap enchantment... as I noted in the other thread, it is a horrible enchantment to balance properly and was given the nuclear treatment by its original authors... and even the best usage of the enchantment is still terrible... your dancing weapon will miss most targets on anything but a nat 20, the +4 cost limits additional enchantment options... and the best option (+1 Dancing Vorpal Weapon) is only effective once out of every 400 attacks...

[RAWmonger]

Luckily that 1 in 400 confirmed roll will be against a random encounter of CR 5 bandits instead of the CR 15 boss fight.

Don’t worry though, your barbarian buddy and his +1 Furious Keen Speed Greataxe will eventually roll a 19 or a 20 and deal 150+ damage and effectively decapitate the guy for you... but hey, at least your +10 weapon is entirely ignorable.

(No, I’ll never stop bashing Dancing Weapons)

[Shinoskay]

Notbruce, if you continue to pursue the option. you can use an effortless lace you can make it so it counts as one weapon size lighter when you wield it.

if you make a light bow, some other kind of self arming endless ammo ranged weapon, and have it dancing then you can have free ranged attacks with an oversized weapon most the time. Massive rays of light just buzzing out every round.

Firstly, as presented above, this is great anti fodder damage...

secondly, its also great against easier to hit enemies or obstacles because its doing heavy light damage.

thirdly, it may be worth to find out if it can be used for maneuvers (im not sure, probably not).

Finally, its a free extra attack. if you got stupid ammounts of money to waste then this is probably the thing to waste it on.

[Chell Raighn]

Shinoskay wrote:

Notbruce, if you continue to pursue the option. you can use an effortless lace you can make it so it counts as one weapon size lighter when you wield it.

Keep in mind, the Effortless Lace can only be applied to One-handed Piercing & Slashing Melee weapons... so it may not be the most practical choice...

[Shinoskay]

pistol with a socket bayonet, -2 but you can make one that does spread shots.

Pistols do not change classifications due to sizing.

Or add the socket bayonet to a hand crossbow (sized gigantic, lol).

A yuan-tai bow can also possibly do it.

[willuwontu]

Shinoskay wrote:

Pistols do not change classifications due to sizing.

FAQ wrote:

Inappropriately Sized Firearms: Does this rule (page 136) allow a Medium or smaller creature to use larger firearms of any size?

The text of the rule is, "The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it." The intent of that rule was to prevent a Medium character from using a Small rifle as a one-handed pistol; it wasn’t intended to let a Medium character use a Large, Huge, Gargantuan, or Colossal two-handed firearm as a two-handed weapon. Just like with non-firearms, a creature cannot wield a weapon that’s far too big or small for it. Specifically in the case of firearms, a Medium character can’t use a two-handed firearm sized for a Large or larger creature, and a Small character can’t use a two-handed firearm sized for a Medium or larger creature.

[Shinoskay]

wrong place for that argument, no one is really abusing that.

he becomes a huge dragon, the pistol is sized for the dragon... but sometimes he is also a medium person. The pistol wont resize for that.

go take your fire arms size abuse argument somewhere else. Nevermind we are talking about dancing, he wont even actually be wielding it.

Also, in case it comes up.

there are lots of one handed, piercing, pistols

dagger pistol

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/pistol-dagge r

A freaking sword cane pistol... woof. one handed, light, slashing and piercing and bludgeoning and... just woof.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/pistol-sword -cane

and for those who want to get really crazy, a spiked buckler gun...
What DOESNT it do?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/buckler-gun

Hell, with a beneficial bandelier you can load alchemical shots (super ranged splash weapon, ;) it wont miss ;) ) and you can use spell shots (shoots spells).

some crazy stuff, powerful, you can do here.