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I've been re-watching my collection of classic wuxia/shaolin DVDs recently, which got me inspired to create a monk specialized in using exotic weapons, especially since Gods & Magic includes numerous additions to that category: bladed scarf, fighting fan, meteor hammer, naginata, nine-ring sword, tekko-kagi, urumi and war razor.
Once I opened my book, however, I realized that *none* of the weapons presented have the "monk" trait, despite their iconic status!
Do you think it was a deliberate choice from the designers, or a simple oversight?
Do you foresee any issue if I added the monk trait to these weapons as a house rule?
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Fighting fan has the monk trait, just FYI.
Fighting fan has the monk trait, just FYI.
Ah yes!
That makes its absence from the other weapons I mentioned even more strange, though.
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Well, you'd gain access to them via Monastic Weaponry. Then, when you compare them against the existing monk weapons that MW currently gives you access to, the new ones would be slightly better. More or less the same damage die (for same number of hands/reach comparable weapons), but better traits.
So it's not a gross powerup, but it is definitely a powerup.
Those non-Monk weapons were not built around being able to be used with Flurry, or the abilities that build off of being Monk weapons.
Bo Staff marks the best weapon stats one can expect, so Naginata just squeaks past that as too strong.
That said, I think it'd be cool if Monks could gain equal proficiency in Tian weapons somehow.
(And Katanas for Rogues too!)
Then, when you compare them against the existing monk weapons that MW currently gives you access to, the new ones would be slightly better.
They're all martial weapons, that means for their power budget they're designed to be pretty much equal. That holds for most of them in practice, too.
The only obvious example of power creep is the Fighting Fan vs the War Razor, with the War Razor literally just being a straight upgrade. Weird, given that they're both published in the same book and both considered martial weapons. That feels more like an editing error than a design decision though.
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War Razor loses Monk trait for that upgrade. So not straight, at least not if you have Flurry.
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War Razor loses Monk trait for that upgrade. So not straight, at least not if you have Flurry.
Yeah, monk is clearly part of the power budget.
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Not everything "Eastern" flavored should be a monk weapon.
That said since the rope dart should be a monk weapon, the meteor hammer probably should be as well.
I wonder if a way to handle this would be to make a later "weapon monk" feat let you treat a curated list of weapons as having the monk trait (for purposes of monastic weapons.) We do need more feat support for weapon monks.
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Of the weapons on that list, only the nine-ring sword had the Monk weapon property in PF1 (well, and the fighting fan, which still does). I don't think non-Monk weapons remaining non-Monk in the edition change is particularly surprising.
Given that Temple Swords and Nine-Ring Swords are nearly identical (Temple Sword has Trip and Monk while Nine Ring has Disarm) and that I don't think Trip is worse than Disarm as a property, I'd be inclined to add Monk back to the Nine-Ring Sword and call it a day.
Or just ignore the whole thing, since it's a minor change in one weapon, of course.
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One thought here: Monastic Weaponry may not be intended as the only means of Monk Weapon Support-- in fact we know it isn't, with zen archery being present in the APG despite the lack of a bow in Monastic Weaponry's supported set of weapons.
More likely, stronger weapons like the Longbow, Katana, and Naginata that seem like a monk should be able to use them are in a separate category-- not weapons that many Monks of whatever build can leverage, but weapons that specific sorts of Monks with more invested builds use, perhaps with mechanics different than Monastic Weaponry's generic style compatibility setup.
I can imagine say, a Kensei or Sword Saint monk archetype, and feat support with styles designed to be used with a Katana, or a Naginata, or whatever.
I can do without more weapons. What we need are more use out of the ones we have.
We already cover a lot of ground, even at launch- we had a sword, a reach weapon, a few maneuver weapons. However, most of them were relatively bland in comparison to the stances. Additionally, monastic weapon granted us shuriken, but not the ability to properly use them in a flurry.
I would be more interested in feat chains for using swords or throwing weapons rather than more variety of weapons.
Sidenote- Sohei was the archetype that could use reach weapons and bows in a flurry (bows also had another archetype, but that is a separate issue). Many people forget the sohei because it had a couple mount related abilities, but the main features were martial weapons, more weapons to use in a flurry, fighter style weapon training (giving it some of the highest attack bonuses, even when compared against the unchained monk) and the ability to flurry in light armor.
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There's also the idea that, if you want to be a weapon-focused character, pick up fighter and style yourself a monk-ish person.
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Additionally, monastic weapon granted us shuriken, but not the ability to properly use them in a flurry.
On a tangent, I always wanted a feat or class ability that allowed a monk to add extra damage to a shuriken throw based on the amount of distance he covered during that round (sort of a velocity throw / charging throw).
Perhaps also an ability to throw a fistful of shuriken and affect each 5 ft. square in a cone with a single hit (generally hitting each target once, but in the case of large and huge creatures, possibly hitting the same target a bunch of times!).
I love shuriken, but there never seemed to be any reason to use them, unless you were playing a ninja who could make them deadly with sneak attack dice.
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Additionally, monastic weapon granted us shuriken, but not the ability to properly use them in a flurry.
Yeah, it'll make me sad if the Zen archer that can flurry with bows but not with shurikens...
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We houseruled a feat for that, the Monk can pick one weapon of his choice with Monastic Weaponry, but only one. Worked so far, and did not seems too overpowered compared to certain stances. We got a Gebbite Monk who wield a Scythe and is planning to go Staff Master.