Daring Champion.
Daring Champion retains the banner feature, but in practice cannot place it:
- On their mount, as the archetype does not get that class feature
- On a pole, lance, or polearm, as the archetype favours swashbuckler weapons
- On a heraldric heavy or tower shield, as the archetype favours bucklers
What legal options remain for banners? I'm looking for defined rules options, something that would be PFS legal.
Frame.
Now... if only we could get the cost and rules for a frame.
"at least small or larger.. must be carried or displayed by the cavalier."
That's the extent of official ruling on Banners. Do you wear a cape? I don't see a reason you couldn't make your cape your banner. What about a half cape that drapes over your off-hand arm, displaying your ensign?
I'd certainly say that's "displaying" your banner. There's never any handedness or other item type required outside of "at least small"
The most iconic 'Swashbucklers' of all time did *exactly* this
Depending on which FAQ you use: Lances always count as two handed for power attack or 2h weapons wielded in 1h count as 1h for power attack, you might be able to convince a GM to allow you use to a lance with Daring Champion. Of course, you are missing the mount part... but there are feats for that.
Thank you each for your responses.
As Cavall says, it would be nice to have some official rules. If at all possible, I'd prefer a build that's portable between tables. From the quote provided by RAWmonger, trouble was taken to set requirements, so it does not seem quite... In the spirit of the design to allow it as a cape or something else requiring no effort. I could feat into a mount, per the overall approach of Firebug, but I pictured an urban character that belongs to a medium race, so any mount literally wouldn't fit.
I'd happily pay for a tabard if one counted as my banner.
Yeah I dont think they do as it's certainly not even hinted at in the options given.
Undersized mount may work for you as a feat though. You could ride a medium mount and when (as a mount) it's to grow, take the bonus to stats and not size.
Its certainly the best way to keep a medium mount for a medium rider.
A daring champion can have a mount. A mount does not have to be one granted as a class feature or from a feat. Horses are listed under mounts in the equipment section of the core rule book. A mount that is not gained as a class feature does not scale up as the character gains levels, but is still a mount.
Daring champions are proficient with marital weapons so can use lances, polearms and spears if they want to. Some of their class features may not apply to these weapons, but nothing prevents them from using them.
As far as weapons go Trident’s are one handed piercing melee weapons and as such would work with Champions’ Finesse. Hooking a banner to a trident should not be a problem. It may look kind of strange but RAW it is legal.
A tabard should also work.
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There’s really no reason a tabard wouldn’t work. It’s a small or larger sized object displayed by the cavalier, so it fits the rules, and it was a common way both historically and in fantasy to display your sigil in battle. If it had to be a wielded weapon/flag/staff, there would be no reason to include “carried or displayed.” So clearly there is an option to display your banner without carrying it, and either you or your horse can display it without carrying it. This leads us to necessary inference of “how would one display a banner on themselves or their mount without carrying it?” Which then leads you to the obvious answer of using a tabard/cape/painted shield, etc...
I think a Cloak or Tabard would be highly fitting for a Daring Champion.
My thanks again for everyone's responses.
The heraldric shield enhancement had nudged me toward looking at magical items. None I could find within budget seemed to function for a cavalier, but this thread provided some perspective, and a basic tabard seems ideal.
Tabard wrote: Often worn over armor, this outer garment is usually sleeveless and open at the sides. The broad front provides a canvas for insignias and coats of arms, making a wearer’s membership in an order readily apparent. That seems good enough to me. A link for anyone else interested.
And now we have to keep track of the blood and gore splattered on the tabard to see when the banner is no longer "clearly visible"! ;-)
Derklord wrote: And now we have to keep track of the blood and gore splattered on the tabard to see when the banner is no longer "clearly visible"! ;-) I cast Prestidigitation! There, good as new :)
Calling it now, Magical Talent becomes a must-have trait for Daring Champions!
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Did anyone else read the title as being really frustrated with the daring champion and wanting to do something unpleasant to them?
1. Where the sun don't shine.
2. Something something consenting adults--*BUZZER*
Diego Rossi wrote: Japanese samurai banner this magical armor has the same set up. and if i read it right this part is not a part of the magic of the armor. so in essence any armor of the same kind can also have it set.
"A sturdy metal bracket is built onto the back of the armor, located just under the shoulder blades; if the wielder has personal heraldry, this slot can hold a banner or flag bearing that heraldry (such as a cavalier’s banner)."
this cloak can also serves as a banner (not sure if must worship Iomedae as well or not for that bit)
blahpers wrote: 1. Where the sun don't shine.
2. Something something consenting adults--*BUZZER*
Gives a whole new meaning to the "Daring" part of the title.
Given our new interpretation, I now believe the size and shape of the banner matters A LOT...
"Oh my, what an awfully large banner you have..."
"That's not my banner..."
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