| lemeres |
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, getting very very angry because you want to climb that wall better is a bit gamey.
If there's something you want to tear apart sitting on top of it, that's a different story!
"No, it must be a nurikabe! it is a grapple check where I get on top of it to subdue it!"
...wait, what if the party has a really powerful illusionist that tricks the barbarian into thinking there is an enemy?
| RagingBarb |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
IDK, I feel like if I was playing a Barbarian, having a GM specifically designing encounters to try to prevent me from using my main combat mechanic would get old fast.
Indeed, this is a very poor GM tactic. Like the enemy actually knows the exact mechanic of the rage action... Doing it once, ok. Doing this repeatedly might actually make your player rage quit, no pun intented :).
| masda_gib |
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I think the intent is more "You are allowed to stop raging when you don't perceive enemies", since you otherwise can't end it voluntarily.
Since you can chose who to treat as an ally and as an enemy you always can percieve enemies as long as you have party members nearby. :)
And yes, I would allow to rage to climb a cliff. You still can only rage for a minute anyway. And a cliff can be a hazard and therefore enemy... it's more of a hassle to justify that you can't rage.
| thenobledrake |
I think the intent is more "You are allowed to stop raging when you don't perceive enemies", since you otherwise can't end it voluntarily.
One part that, and one part "no, you can't scream off deeper into the dungeon at the end of encounter to keep your Rage benefits during Exploration Mode."
| breithauptclan |
Squiggit wrote:IDK, I feel like if I was playing a Barbarian, having a GM specifically designing encounters to try to prevent me from using my main combat mechanic would get old fast.Indeed, this is a very poor GM tactic. Like the enemy actually knows the exact mechanic of the rage action... Doing it once, ok. Doing this repeatedly might actually make your player rage quit, no pun intented :).
I wouldn't expect run-of-the-mill enemies to do this. But perhaps if the party has a Nemesis, it would be an appropriate thing to do. An enemy that has taken the time and effort to figure out exactly how a particular character in the party fights and has worked out a potential weakness to exploit. And then has the dedication and determination to try and set up a scenario to exploit that weakness.
But no, not something that the party would have to deal with on a regular basis.
| The Gleeful Grognard |
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breithauptclan wrote:IDK, I feel like if I was playing a Barbarian, having a GM specifically designing encounters to try to prevent me from using my main combat mechanic would get old fast.
Having smart enemies that have targeted tactics against the party and throw in decoy enemies to bait out rage seems like a very valid tactic.
I would quit a game like that, I hated how many people suggested that this was the right way to handle PF1e character imbalances too "just build encounters against the character" -ugh-
A PF1e game I am playing in atm has nearly every encounter having at least one foe with ray of exhaustion, prepared, known or on a magical item / effect. Just to take the rage from the barbarian with the auto fatigue (and let's be real, hitting a raging barbarian isn't a challenge in PF1e with a ranged touch attack)
Really bothers me even if I am not that player. (will stop being an issue with cord of resolve, but that has made cord of resolve a mandatory purchase now)
TwilightKnight
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If the only enemy you see goes invisible, I would allow you to make a Seek check to detect if it was still around or if someone else detected it and told you it was still around you could continue raging, but if you lose track of them completely, whether or not they are actually around, you would drop out of rage. I cannot imagine this edge case coming up more than extremely rare, but if it is a higher level enemy, aware of your rage, and highly intelligent, sure it would be a reasonable counter to you.
Like most have said, "enemy" is a very ambiguous term and you're not gonna find a definitive rule in the forums. Discuss it with your GM is the best you can hope for.
A PF1e game I am playing...
Remember this is the 2E rules forum so that reference doesn't have much applicability.
| The Gleeful Grognard |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:A PF1e game I am playing...Remember this is the 2E rules forum so that reference doesn't have much applicability.
Building encounters to specifically (and frequently) shut down / disallow basic functionality of a class. Isn't tied to one edition or another, throwing in minor encounters with major encounters waiting in the wings SPECIFICALLY so the barbarian cannot rage is cheap and very meta for a GM and not taking the player's fun into consideration.
If it were to come up circumstantially sure, but doing it specifically to stop them from having rage and not for narrative reasons, that is a nasty move.
| shroudb |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
TwilightKnight wrote:The Gleeful Grognard wrote:A PF1e game I am playing...Remember this is the 2E rules forum so that reference doesn't have much applicability.Building encounters to specifically (and frequently) shut down / disallow basic functionality of a class. Isn't tied to one edition or another, throwing in minor encounters with major encounters waiting in the wings SPECIFICALLY so the barbarian cannot rage is cheap and very meta for a GM and not taking the player's fun into consideration.
If it were to come up circumstantially sure, but doing it specifically to stop them from having rage and not for narrative reasons, that is a nasty move.
Tailoring every encounter to counter the party is bad form.
Tailoring some specific encounters to counter some of the party, often related to the BBEG learning the weaknesses of said part member, is a good way to build up drama (if done correctly).Like, if the party has a dedicated enchanter that has ruined his plans, and the BBEG sends a wave of mindless enemies to take care of said enchanter.
But yeah, definately not something that you want as a stable and often repeating encounter
Making a player feel weak in an encounter helps building suspense. Making a player feel weak in all/most encounters invalidates his character.
| Gaulin |
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This is one thing that bugs me about the barbarian. While a lot of it is cool and makes sense, tying so many utility things in with rage seems silly to me. Like if a character was alone at the bottom of a ravine that was too difficult to climb out of using his athletics, but he has the raging athlete feat to give him a climb speed while raging... He dies of thirst at the bottom of the ravine because there aren't any enemies around. Same sort of situation could be applied to dragon rage wings.
| The Gleeful Grognard |
This is one thing that bugs me about the barbarian. While a lot of it is cool and makes sense, tying so many utility things in with rage seems silly to me. Like if a character was alone at the bottom of a ravine that was too difficult to climb out of using his athletics, but he has the raging athlete feat to give him a climb speed while raging... He dies of thirst at the bottom of the ravine because there aren't any enemies around. Same sort of situation could be applied to dragon rage wings.
A mother in effort to save their child may lift a car but be otherwise unable to repeat such an action.
I have also met people who are more capable when emotionally roused. Let's be real, a sensibly built barbarian is still likely the best climber of the group even without the rage benefit ;)
Themetricsystem
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Now I'm thinking about a hypothetical barbarian that's trapped under a boulder and unable to free themselves because just too depressed to get angry because the accident was just totally their fault.
After a few minutes, they realize that in this situation, they are their own worst enemy and explode into a fit of self-loathing induced rage.
| BeardedTree |
If the only enemy you see goes invisible, I would allow you to make a Seek check to detect if it was still around or if someone else detected it and told you it was still around you could continue raging, but if you lose track of them completely, whether or not they are actually around, you would drop out of rage. I cannot imagine this edge case coming up more than extremely rare, but if it is a higher level enemy, aware of your rage, and highly intelligent, sure it would be a reasonable counter to you.
Like most have said, "enemy" is a very ambiguous term and you're not gonna find a definitive rule in the forums. Discuss it with your GM is the best you can hope for.
The Gleeful Grognard wrote:A PF1e game I am playing...Remember this is the 2E rules forum so that reference doesn't have much applicability.
I hate to ask this (in case it was answered earlier and I missed it) and to resurrect this post but a situation kind of arose in my game over the weekend. If a Dwarven giant instinct barbarian was in an area where he couldn't see OR hear, can he still "perceive" enemies?
Say for instance inside of a Sacristan's Shadow Scream?
Jared Walter 356
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I hate to ask this (in case it was answered earlier and I missed it) and to resurrect this post but a situation kind of arose in my game over the weekend. If a Dwarven giant instinct barbarian was in an area where he couldn't see OR hear, can he still "perceive" enemies?
Say for instance inside of a Sacristan's Shadow Scream?
That would make the creature undetected, but not unnoticed. In other words the scream itself means you know its there, so I would allow raging.
I would allow rage with an undetected, but not unnoticed creature. Undetected means you perceive (imprecisely) that they are there, but don't know their exact location. Unnoticed would mean you cannot perceive that they are there.