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Greetings, I have a query regarding the lethality of lvl 1 in Starfinder, we are playing attack of the swarm. Group is a soldier, mechanic, operative and Technomancer.
We are getting our arses kicked so hard that in the second combat the DM had to intervene and throw 2 npcs to save us or it would be everyone dead.
Our average attack is +3 to +5 to hit.
But our dices seemed to be cursed we couldnt hit anything, while our enemies average in 7+ doing 1d6+3 dmg average.
So any tips on what to do? Rules that we should be aware of, we come from Pathfinder 1.0, but we feel like our abilities don't have that impact compared to our lvl characters in Pathfinder.
Appologies for my english not my first language.
Level 1 and 2 can be rough in starfinder, past level 3, I find you have enough stamina to avoid hp hits in non-difficult encounters.
At level 1-2, cursed dice are cursed dice. Against equal level enemies, you should be hitting on an 8-10, even with only a +3 to hit.
Try finding weapons targetting EAC, take cover/drop prone vs. ranged combatants, wait for enemies to come to you instead of standing around in the open like a PF1 party?
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A few other things I would point out that may or may not help your table:
1. While NPCs tend to have very high attack modifiers, relative to PCs, they also tend to have low AC to balance out the hit rates. As a result, the full attack action is often mathematically a much better option than it initially appears to be. The high enemy attack mods do also mean you should strongly consider defensive options that aren't just wearing armor. The suggestions to take cover and go prone in ranged fights are good. Making melee enemies keep following you so that they can't full attack is good. Smoke grenades can be real game changers (pay attention to the smoke inhalation rules included in them, for timed when you have enemies who aren't wearing modern armor, or don't have environmental seals active yet).
2. Melee fighters hit much harder than guns, especially before level 3. I don't know how any if the characters in your party are built, but if you areceived all ranged-focused, you will have comparitively low damage output, especially at level 1-2. The counterpoint to this is that enemies also tend to do more damage in melee range.
3. The "tank" paradigm does not work very efficiently in Starfinder until the designated tank can start augmenting their defenses with DR and energy resistances. At low levels, parties are usually better off with enemies that don't focus on the beefy soldier/solarian/vanguard, because the stamina system allows an entire party to recover more easily from distributed damage. When the tough characters have gained a few levels and start getting MUCH tougher than their squishier friends, this changes.
4. If you actually just have a big run of bad dice luck, there isn't too much for it except to hold out until your luck changes.
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Paizo seems to overestimate low level PCs and underestimate high level ones a bit.
Definitely get new armor. Generally you can afford to let your weapon lag a little bit until the difference in damage dice is noticeable. New armor always gives a numerical advantage.
I do not know what, specifically, you are planning to buy, but I would also strongly recommend that you avoid purchasing the same general type of weapon that you are already using (replacing a laser rifle with a better laser rifle, for example) and instead always purchase a weapon with a different damage type than your previous best weapon.
Definitely get new armor. Generally you can afford to let your weapon lag a little bit until the difference in damage dice is noticeable. New armor always gives a numerical advantage.
Unless you're going to keep upgrading armor, it may no tbe very likely to actually reduce the number of hits you take.
Don't forget to stock up on healing serums :)
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Okay, a question here. My Vesk just made Level 3 and is starting to add to his damage output. In a few more games he will be able to afford a weapon doing 2 or 3 dies of damage. I have a choice between a 3die melee weapon doing analog damage or a 2die weapon doing damage to the EAC, do you think the difference in attack numbers is worth the extra die of damage?
Okay, a question here. My Vesk just made Level 3 and is starting to add to his damage output. In a few more games he will be able to afford a weapon doing 2 or 3 dies of damage. I have a choice between a 3die melee weapon doing analog damage or a 2die weapon doing damage to the EAC, do you think the difference in attack numbers is worth the extra die of damage?
What are the precise damage dice, and what is your attack bonus? If melee, what is your strength bonus?
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okay my current bonuses are +4 strength,+2 weapon specialization and +3 level.
The analog weapon is the great axe, sintered from Armory, does 3d6
The other is the Glass Blade, jolt 2d6 E&P
By the time I can afford them I will be at level 5. The glass blade is level 7 and the great axe is level 6. So I would have to wait until level 6 to get the Glass blace, while the great axe would be available on hitting 5. I currently use a Flame Doshko, ember which does 1d8F.
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okay my current bonuses are +4 strength,+2 weapon specialization and +3 level.
The analog weapon is the great axe, sintered from Armory, does 3d6
The other is the Glass Blade, jolt 2d6 E&PBy the time I can afford them I will be at level 5. The glass blade is level 7 and the great axe is level 6. So I would have to wait until level 6 to get the Glass blace, while the great axe would be available on hitting 5. I currently use a Flame Doshko, ember which does 1d8F.
I don't know what the 'weapon specialization' is, that should be the bonus you get from level?
But, the glass blade targets KAC, not EAC since it's a split damage type (electrical & piercing) weapon and not a pure energy weapon.
weapon specialization is a lot different in starfinder
Yeah, both of these target KAC, so the axe is clearly better.
If there were an EAC weapon at play I'd want to know your attack bonus (to hit, not damage) so I could run the damage per round calculations against generic CR2 and CR3 enemies.
okay my current bonuses are +4 strength,+2 weapon specialization and +3 level.
The analog weapon is the great axe, sintered from Armory, does 3d6
The other is the Glass Blade, jolt 2d6 E&PBy the time I can afford them I will be at level 5. The glass blade is level 7 and the great axe is level 6. So I would have to wait until level 6 to get the Glass blace, while the great axe would be available on hitting 5. I currently use a Flame Doshko, ember which does 1d8F.
Assuming you're level 3 and have 18 strength, your damage calculation on a non operative weapon melee attack should be:
Weapon Die + 4 (Str) + 3 (Specialization) + Any other specific damage calculations that aren't STR or Specialization damage.
Specialization is the thing that everyone gets at level 3, and it's +1 damage/level for most weapons, and +1/2 per level for small arms and operative weapons. I'm not sure where you're getting 2 from.
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Okay then, also looking at the Angel wing, monadic, 2d6 E&F
Icestar staff, seeker 2d6 C or F
Ok, your KAC option does an average of 3d6+9, or 19.5 on a hit.
Your EAC options do 2d6+9, or 16 on a hit.You have a +7 attack bonus.
A CR 3 combatant array has a recommended EAC/KAC of 14/16. You would hit that EAC 70% of the time, KAC 60% of the time, for an expected damage of 11.2 with the energy weapon, 11.7 with the kinetic.
Some aliens will have a lower spread than 2 (including expert and spellcaster arrays), making the kinetic relatively better, and a few will have a larger spread than 2 (usually particularly rugged combatants), making the energy weapon better.
Against significantly higher AC than a CR 3 combatant the energy weapon gets better, as the increased chance to hit at all matters more than the damage deficit, while against lower CR things the advantage of the kinetic weapon grows.
Note that until you get a fusion on it or some sort of mystic strike ability the kinetic weapon cannot hurt incorporeal creatures, even though their EAC=KAC and a kinetic weapon is otherwise better against incorporeals.
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Okay then, also looking at the Angel wing, monadic, 2d6 E&F
Icestar staff, seeker 2d6 C or FOk, your KAC option does an average of 3d6+9, or 19.5 on a hit.
Your EAC options do 2d6+9, or 16 on a hit.You have a +7 attack bonus.
A CR 3 combatant array has a recommended EAC/KAC of 14/16. You would hit that EAC 70% of the time, KAC 60% of the time, for an expected damage of 11.2 with the energy weapon, 11.7 with the kinetic.
Some aliens will have a lower spread than 2 (including expert and spellcaster arrays), making the kinetic relatively better, and a few will have a larger spread than 2 (usually particularly rugged combatants), making the energy weapon better.
Against significantly higher AC than a CR 3 combatant the energy weapon gets better, as the increased chance to hit at all matters more than the damage deficit, while against lower CR things the advantage of the kinetic weapon grows.
Note that until you get a fusion on it or some sort of mystic strike ability the kinetic weapon cannot hurt incorporeal creatures, even though their EAC=KAC and a kinetic weapon is otherwise better against incorporeals.
Thanks, I had forgotten about Kinetic against incorporeal!
Also, I cannot find a fusion that seems to work for what you described.
Nearly any fusion works since they cause the attack to be considered magical. Which raises the damage from 0% to 50%.