Cross posting this here, for easier searching.
My system mastery is still shaky at best, so feel free to point out my errors.
Hit points: 8
Size: Medium
Speed: 25 feet
Ability Boost: Constitution, Intelligence, 1 free
Ability Flaw: Charisma
Languages: Common. Additional languages equal to your intelligence modifier (if it's positive). Choose from the list of common languages and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).
Traits: Warforged*, Humanoid
Composite body: A Warforged can apply an armor rune directly to its own skin. You can invest in your skin, or a suit of armor you are wearing, but not both at once.
While ultimately humanoid through the complex magic that constructed them, Warforged share enough in common with other constructs to be recognized by magic that interacts with constructs. A caster that targets a Warforged character may treat that Warforged as a construct if doing so would be beneficial to the caster.
Heritages
Armored: Most Warforged that were intended to be soldiers were created with some basic protection. An armored warforged gains a +1 to AC, and can apply light armor runes to its composite body.
Scout: A scout Warforged is small and has increased sensory ability. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus when using the Seek action to find hidden or undetected creatures within 30 feet of you. When you target an opponent that is concealed from you or hidden from you, reduce the DC of the flat check to 3 for a concealed target or 9 for a hidden one.
Prototype: The earliest Warforged were somewhat more like constructs than humanoids when compared to more modern Warforged, and are not quite as vulnerable to the toils of the flesh. If you roll a success on a saving throw against a poison, disease, or fatigue effect, you get a critical success instead.
Body Double: You were made to look like a specific individual. When impersonating the specific creature you resemble, crit failures count as a failure. If you critically succeed, the person you have deceived does not get a new roll to penetrate your disguise for 1 day.
Ancestry Feats
Artificial Metabolism (1): When saving against a necromancy effect, treat your result as if it were one level higher (crit failure becomes a failure, failure a success, success a crit success).
Docent (1): gain an intelligent item that counts as a familiar.
Integrated Weapon (1): You have a simple or martial one-handed melee weapon that you have access to incorporated into your body's construction. You are trained in this weapon, and if it is a simple weapon, increase its damage die one step. You may choose to integrate a weapon into either or both arms, and are always considered to be carrying them, though you must use a Change Your Grip action to Wield them. If you are not actively wielding them, you are not considered to be carrying them for the purposes of Manipulating other objects. They do not count against your bulk.
Jaws of Death (1)
Second Slam (requires Integrated Weapon) (5): You gain the Double Slice Fighter class feat, but can only use it with your Intergrated Weapon.
Tireless (5): Immune to the fatigue condition.
Scion of House Cannith (9): You gain access to dragonmarks as if you were a Human member of House Cannith.
Construct Apotheosis (requires Artificial Metabolism and Tireless) (13): You become immune to necromancy spell effects, unless you cast them on yourself. You gain the construct trait and lose the humanoid trait (and must immediately retrain out of any feats that require the humanoid trait).
Humanoid Apotheosis (13): When targeted by a spell, you only count as a construct if doing so would benefit you, not the caster.
Natural Weapon (requires Integrated weapon) (13): Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in a given weapon or weapons, you also gain that proficiency with your integrated weapon.
***
Some of these, like Docent for example, are more notes than rules text. That one specifically I'll need the rules from the gamemastery guide before it'll be ready to be an actual feat. But I hope the gist comes across.
Also I was working off this post as inspiration. It lists other ancestral feats for later conversion.
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42rk7&page=2?Conversion-Woes-This-is-Me-Ve nting#58
Edit: More notes:
Two additional things I can see necessary right off the bat are replicating the warforged slam attack, and adding a feat for additional armor. Probably more feats to integrate other materials into construction as well. At first, I figured any such feats should be 1st level only, like Elf Atavism, but then I remembered that transhumanism (transconstructionism I suppose) is a huge part of Warforged identity, so the ability to tinker with their own bodies, adding weapons and armor (or removing them) needs to be maintained. For that reason, body double might ultimately wind up a Feat instead of a heritage.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
First off: I really like Warforged (one of the more interesting species to come out of dnd) and was really curious reading this
It reads pretty decent, still have some thoughts that came to me while reading, hope they will help you:
Constitution is an intersting choice for a specias that wouldn't even have the score in PF1e, but it actually makes kind of sense
The +1AC from Armored should be an Item Bonus so it doesn't stack with Armors
Body double: is one able to change the appearance or is it fixed?
Docent: it is a bit vague in the wording, in one of the recent blogs there was a mask familiar, maybe look at that one
Integrated Weapon: Love the concept, but: is the Weapon exchangeble? Can the feat be aquired later? Is there a limit to the Weapons Price? Is it instead of a hand or additionally?
Jaws of Death: I guess this is supposed to be a bite attack, you forgot the discription
Second Slam: I would remove this one tbh, but it is more of a gut feeling that I have here
I would NOT add a feat for additional armor, I know the warforged had them but it does not fit within the usual math of pathfinder
(Well, maybe feats that give armor but also some dex penalty, so your feat basically is an equipped armor)
Thank you for your feedback! I'm largely in agreement with your line of thinking, I think, but I'll adress it point by point anyways.
First off: I really like Warforged (one of the more interesting species to come out of dnd) and was really curious reading this
It reads pretty decent, still have some thoughts that came to me while reading, hope they will help you:
Constitution is an intersting choice for a specias that wouldn't even have the score in PF1e, but it actually makes kind of sense
Tbh, I was working off someeone else's PF1 version of the warforged. Some of the missing info, like on Jaws of Death, was because my post in the original thread was 2 posts below someone else's writing. Con was their idea, and I saw no real reason to change it.
The +1AC from Armored should be an Item Bonus so it doesn't stack with Armors
Here's probably the one place I disagree with you. I think this SHOULD stack with armor. This might be too powerful for a heritage, and if I think of another good way of expressing it, I'll modify it.
Body double: is one able to change the appearance or is it fixed?
Mostly fixed, but retraining would allow you to change the appearance.
Docent: it is a bit vague in the wording, in one of the recent blogs there was a mask familiar, maybe look at that one
It is 100% vague. The mask familiar is what let me feel confident enough to go for it, but I strongly suspect gamemastery guide will have full rules for intelligent item familiars.
Integrated Weapon: Love the concept, but: is the Weapon exchangeble? Can the feat be aquired later? Is there a limit to the Weapons Price? Is it instead of a hand or additionally?
Weapon is enchantable, the feat can be acquired at a later level, there is no limit to the price (although you do have to pay for them, so that is its own limit), and it is in addition to a hand.
The specific story I imagine for this feat is osmehting like the Lord of Blades, who acquired swords for his hands at a high level.
Jaws of Death: I guess this is supposed to be a bite attack, you forgot the discription
Yeah, it is a bite attack. I didn't so much forget as "didn't decide the actual rules text". This is more of a placeholder than actual feat.
I would NOT add a feat for additional armor, I know the warforged had them but it does not fit within the usual math of pathfinder
(Well, maybe feats that give armor but also some dex penalty, so your feat basically is an equipped armor)
I absolutely intended for it to have a dex penalty. The form of the feat as I imagine it will be a permanent set of light armor (and will require training in light armor), with most of the penalties associated with it, except that you are able to sleep in and it doesn't count against your bulk. Also, Armored Warforged would be able to use Medium armor runes, since they can already use Light armor ones.
I imagine there will be a LOT of warforged alchemists if my thinking stays the same, since they can use their ancestral feats to get around some of their bulk.
I always thought it made more sense for warforged to have a wisdom penalty rather than a charisma penalty. Since they are created with AI but no life experience.
I always thought it made more sense for warforged to have a wisdom penalty rather than a charisma penalty. Since they are created with AI but no life experience.
I get your logic, but disagree due to how Wisdom the stat is defined. Because it’s not life experience (that would be experience), it’s the ability to perceive the outside world, and charisma is your sense of self. I think they can perceive the world around them just fine; but their sense of self as an individual is probably lower.
I actually hadn’t fully thought about it until you mentioned it, but now I’m convinced the cha flaw is valid. Less sold on the con boost, but it works well enough.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can see that. Sense of self being force of personality. I do know a lot of warforged search for their place in the world. Often times becoming soldiers or mercenaries since that's what they did in the war (having been created specifically for that purpose).
Been thinking about it, and while I agree that +1 to ac is too strong as is, making it an item bonus might be too limited. I've thought up a couple of other options, but every one feels like it goes against the lore of the ancestry. This is intended to be the default ancestry, and canonically most warforged were originally fighters. Why would House Cannith build them with a benefit that is useless while wearing with armor?
That said, I've been analyzing the available heritages, and I may have a decent alternative. Specifically, the Death Warden Dwarf heritage looks promising. I wonder how broken it would be to get that against Evocation effects instead of necromancy, specifically reflecting the training Warforged get programmed into them to avoid common AOE attacks. Probably don't want to port it over directly; that steps way too hard on Evasion's toes. But maybe as a reaction and give another benefit?
Once that's done, I'd want to shift armored into being a feat. Maybe even a series of feats.
Eh, I'll just write up the proposed heritage now,
Phalanx Born You were created to be a soldier, and extra care was taken to make sure you could survive the magic of war. You gain 10 hit points from your ancestry instead of 8, and you gain the Evocation Avoidance reaction.
Evocation Avoidance {reaction}
Trigger: You roll a success on a saving throw against an evocation effect.
Your success counts as a critical success instead.
Regarding Intergrated Weapon, now that I know a bit better how natural attacks are treated in PF2, it might be easier to make up a trait that the feat gives to the weapons that you integrate into your body, park the rules bit on the trait, and then let the other feats that involve them key off the trait instead of constantly referring to the original feat. As a side benefit, I could make an additional level 1 feat that removes the nonlethal trait from your unarmed attacks, and gives them integrated instead. Or I could just make that a feature of the ancestry itself, like lizardfolk get claw attacks AND Aquatic adaptation. But anyways, doing that would let you, say, get Second Slam without needing the useless to you Integrated Weapons, since I could safely remove that prerequisite.
Also, Construct Apothesis is WAY stronger than I intended it. I'll probably kick it up to a level 17 feat, and remove the necromancy immunity. The construct trait gives a ton of immunities all by itself. Instead, I'll add language that you don't immediately die when you hit 0 hp.
All ST which gives critical with a success are class based.
And about external mechanics.
Except Death Warden dwarf heritage does exactly that with necromancy effects, and no action cost.
Great. I agree it’s probably too strong. I’m just double checking if you realize that an effect that turns success into crit exists outside class based mechanics.
I’ll admit to a bias here; I dislike once per day abilities. I eagerly await the first cantrip/focus spell class, because tracking spells annoys me that much.
That said, this seems workable enough. I have other ideas, but this is fine for now.
I would give body double language about a bonus to passing as a non-warforged, and a bigger bonus to passing as that specific person. As is it's not super useful for an adventurer, even this benefit would only be marginally better. Only useful against war forged haters I guess. Maybe it could instead include something about "programming to act as a more believable fake" to give a non-situational bonus to Deception.
You could make the AC bonus circumstance. This would mean it would stack with armor, but not with shields or cover. It would still be very strong, probably always pick over any other choice given, but at least it's not as strong as an untyped bonus.
|
Would duplicating the Mountain Stance feats be worth considering? Something like:
Armored Body: Your body includes an inherent set of armored plates. You have a +2 item bonus to AC, have a Dexterity modifier cap to your AC of +3, and can inscribe runes into your skin as though it were light armor. You are Trained with this armor, and your proficiency increases whenever your class would increase your proficiency with light armor. You become Expert with this armor at 13th level.
And then perhaps an ancestry feat that makes the Dex cap 1, the item bonus +5, and allows you to inscribe your skin and gain proficiency as though you were wearing heavy?
Not as a heritage, but I was thinking something along those lines for the Armored Ancestry feats.
Upon reflection, adding a +1 item bonus to unarmored defense might fit the theme I'm going for after all (possibly also adding a +5 dex cap). And then the two successive armored feats can add onto it along the lines you've suggested, including allowing you to get the higher armor runes.
I'd have to consider how that would interact with the Monk class though. Other classes shouldn't be too bad, but that one...
Semirelated, anyone have suggestions on phrasing a Slam attack? I've decided to just make it a basic part of being a warforged, since Iruxi get that and breath control. I'm thinking giving an unarmed attack with the Shove property, and probably finesse. Alternatively, it can remove the nonlethal property from a warforged's fist attack and gain shove.
Integrated Weapon is just going to add the freehand property to a weapon. I had kind of forgotten about that one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I needed to come up with a Warforged conversion for my 5E game, and this is really good! The changes others have suggested are solid as well.
For the Slam, I think removing the Nonlethal property and gaining Shove would be the most appropriate choice. Maybe add a feat to up the damage to 1d6 and an additional effect, like treating a critical failure as a failure instead?
I think I had more changes I wanted to make to this...but I forgot what they were. So, I'm just going to throw this out there to be picked apart.
Hit points: 8
Size: Medium
Speed: 25 feet
Ability Boost: Constitution, Intelligence, 1 free
Ability Flaw: Charisma
Languages: Common. Additional languages equal to your intelligence modifier (if it's positive). Choose from the list of common languages and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).
Traits: Constructed*, Humanoid
Composite body: A Warforged can apply armor runes directly to its own skin. You can invest in your skin, or a suit of armor you are wearing, but not both at once.
Slam: Your metal infused fists are weapons in their own right. Your fist attack loses the nonlethal trait, and gains the shove trait.
Constructed Trait: For the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type, creatures with the Constructed trait count as both humanoids and construct. They are also affected as if they are wearing metal armor at all times.
Heritages
Phalanx Training: Most Warforged that were intended to be soldiers were created with an innate ability to avoid area affects. Once per day, you may Take Cover as a reaction instead of an action. You do not need to meet the normal requirements for this action, but if you do not your benefit from cover is only +1, and that benefit automatically end at the beginning of your next turn.
Scout: A scout Warforged is small and has increased sensory ability. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus when using the Seek action to find hidden or undetected creatures within 30 feet of you. When you target an opponent that is concealed from you or hidden from you, reduce the DC of the flat check to 3 for a concealed target or 9 for a hidden one.
Prototype: The earliest Warforged were somewhat more like constructs than humanoids when compared to more modern Warforged, and are not quite as vulnerable to the toils of the flesh. If you roll a success on a saving throw against a necromancy effect, you get a critical success instead.
Ancestry Feats
Armored (1): Your body has incorporated basic armor into its construction. Your unarmored defense has an item bonus of +1, and your dex cap while unarmored is +4. Your Composite Body trait now also allows you to apply runes that require light armor.
Body Double (1): You were made to look like a specific individual. When impersonating the specific creature you resemble, crit failures count as a failure. If you critically succeed, the person you have deceived does not get a new roll to penetrate your disguise for 1 day.
Hold the Line (1):You have trained to hold the battle line. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to your Fortitude or Reflex DC against attempts to Shove or Trip you. This bonus also applies to saving throws against spells or effects that attempt to knock you prone.
In addition, if any effect would force you to move 10 feet or more, you are moved only half the distance.
Integrated Weapon (1): You have a simple or martial one-handed melee weapon that you have access to incorporated into your body's construction. Choose a weapon that you are trained with; it gains the Freehand trait and you are unable to Drop it. You can have up to two integrated weapons. They do not count against your bulk.
You can switch out the weapon that is integrated by retraining.
Jaws of Death (1): You possess a vicious jaw attack. You gain a fangs unarmed attack that deals 1d8 piercing damage.
Unit Cohesion (1): War magic is more than simple blasts. You can cast the cantrip message as an innate arcane spell at will. A cantrip if heightened to a spell level equal to half your level rounded up.
Warforged Lore (1): Young as your ancestry is, there is still plenty for you to know. You gain the trained proficiency rank in Arcane and Craft. If you would automatically become trained in one of those skills (from your background or class, for example), you instead become trained in a skill of your choice. You also become trained in Warforged Lore.
Artificial Metabolism (5): Your inert body parts help shield you. If you roll a success on a saving throw against a poison or disease effect, you get a critical success instead. You also gain poison resistance equal to your level.
Docent (5): You have found an ancient relic from a previous era of warforged, and it has agreed to guide you. You gain a tiny spherical construct that functions as a familiar. You can attach it to or detach it from your body; doing so is a two action activity.
Docents have 1 fewer familiar traits than you would normally be able take. They also have a fly speed of 5 (perfect) that does not count against their familiar abilities, which can be improved to 25ft by taking the flier trait.
Natural Weapons (5): You make the most of your warforged unarmed attacks. Whenever you score a critical hit with a slam or unarmed attack you gained from a warforged ancestry feat, you apply the unarmed attack’s critical specialization bonus.
Plating (requires Armored) (5): You’ve added onto your innate armor. Your unarmored defense item bonus improves to +3, and your dex cap while unarmored is +2. Your Composite Body trait now also allows you to apply runes that require heavy armor.
Tireless (5): You become immune to the fatigued condition.
Scion of House Cannith (9): You gain access to dragonmarks as if you were a Human member of House Cannith. In addition, you lose the Constructed trait, and only count as a Humanoid for affects that target creatures by type.
Construct Apotheosis (requires Artificial Metabolism and Tireless) (9): Trigger: You attempt a saving throw against a magical effect but haven’t rolled yet.
You gained a measure of a typical construct’s resistance to magic. You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to the triggering saving throw. If the effect is necromancy, you gain +2 instead.
You also have resistance 1 against all magic.
Fully integrated (requires integrated weapon) (13): Your integrated weapons are as much a part of you as your metallic skin. Your integrated weapons count as unarmed attacks for the purposes of proficiency and your warforged feats.
Made a google doc version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSQVbob5O4fDaV9AkrMc00O-mQd7f2o KEd29p_bBZUfxR-IYUa5wU_y9y452hXt33Z2XSwS744ED59v/pub