Looking to put together a fun build. I like the idea of a spike chain wielding Cleric of Zon Kuthon. The spike chain seems to be a good trip weapon which would result in a dex build (actually no I could just go Str instead), but then if you went the destruction domain (cry of destruction) you would need to actually deal damage unfortunately in order to have the domain power deal D12 damage. If you wanted to do deal damage with the spiked chain you would need Str, Wis, Con, Cha? which seems very MAD. Or maybe I have no idea how to build him. Harmful font with Cast Down could be pretty useful? Can I get some opinions on an optimized Cleric of Zon Kuthon up to level 12 please.
Fighter with cleric dedication for flavor is probably the strongest in combat.
But if you're going to go cleric, you are gonna suffer MAD. Especially if you want to use divine font. I can't really find a good option for you, except maybe letting WIS drop a bit and focusing buff spells, but that's painful. Dropping CON as a frontliner is very risky, though a little less than in 1e.
Personally I think it's stupid Kuthites can't pick heal for their divine font. Kuthites love to heal flesh in order to work it further.
So going Zon Kuthon basically doesn't work? Can one get Deadly Simplicity for the Spiked Chain? Or since it's uncommon can't?
Is the Spike chain even a decent weapon can someone weigh in on this? Or is it considered garbage and there are better tripping weapons out there?
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Deadly Simplicity has nothing to do with rarity. It doesn't do anything for the spiked chain becase it's a martial weapon and Deadly Simplicity only affects simple weapons. And only weapons with a damage die smaller than d8.
The best thing about the chain is the finesse trait which is rare on d8 weapons. Other than that, it's nothing special. Basically a two-handed whip which trades reach for higher damage. A poor trade off it you want to use your weapon mostly to trip.
The best trip weapon used only for tripping is the whip as it is the only reach trip weapon which can be used with a shield (or a more effective one-handed weapon in the other hand if you want to attack occasionally as well).
If you want to go cleric, Calistria has the Whip as favorite weapon. The only other core deity with a favored trip weapon is Urgathoa with her Scythe.
Urgathoa sounds cool too, the Scythe seems quite good with a D10 and deadly capability with trip, if I were to go that route (Urgathoa) instead of Kathon, what would you recommend as an attribute spread? The nice thing about the Scythe is that it can deal the damage in addition to occasional tripping, I guess that would mean I wouldn't need to invest into Dex much either having a higher Str instead. It just doesn't seem like the Cleric is as good a character as some of the other classes?
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It just doesn't seem like the Cleric is as good a character as some of the other classes?
They aren't as good at tripping, if that's what you mean. But they're much better than fighter at casting spells.
The cleric is a awesome class.
Have no fear of that.
If you go for a fighting cleric go warpriest
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 14
At level 5 and 10 you raise
Str, Con, Wis and Cha.
This will give you melee capability, ok spell casting and good healing.
I would suggest 2-h weapon for max melee damage and shield cantrips for some extra AC. You will notice you will do well in most situations only problem is to have enough action for all.
The cleric is a awesome class.
Have no fear of that.
If you go for a fighting cleric go warpriest
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 14
At level 5 and 10 you raise
Str, Con, Wis and Cha.
This will give you melee capability, ok spell casting and good healing.
I would suggest 2-h weapon for max melee damage and shield cantrips for some extra AC. You will notice you will do well in most situations only problem is to have enough action for all.
Interesting I have a Bard I'm playing in a different campaign and he seems great. He can do pretty much everything including possessing a better spell list. If I go Warpriest which Deity is best for that? Is Urgathoa viable? Seems like a Scythe is solid and even more so if he takes Athletic Rush when tripping his Trip ability should be quite high indeed.
The thing is he seems like an awesome class with Heal, but I'd like to try a Harm cleric and for that I feel he's not very strong. Heal seems much better. Then the other problem is his spell DCs will be too low to actually have Harm work half the time ugh.
It just doesn't seem like the Cleric is as good a character as some of the other classes?They aren't as good at tripping, if that's what you mean. But they're much better than fighter at casting spells.
I would hope so since fighters can't cast spells
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If I go Warpriest which Deity is best for that? Is Urgathoa viable? Seems like a Scythe is solid and even more so if he takes Athletic Rush when tripping his Trip ability should be quite high indeed.
The viability (or lack thereof) of the Warpriest completely depends on what you're planning to do with the character. He's obviously not the best offensive caster, but can be a good healer, buffer and utility caster.
There's also no "best" deity for warpriest. There are a few sub-par ones, mostly those with weak-ish weapons like Abadar. But without knowing what you plan to do with him, there's no way to recommend a deity.
So what do you want to do? Melee? Tanking? Tripping? Healing? Casting spells? All those things can change a build quite dramatically.
The thing is he seems like an awesome class with Heal, but I'd like to try a Harm cleric and for that I feel he's not very strong. Heal seems much better. Then the other problem is his spell DCs will be too low to actually have Harm work half the time ugh.
In my opinion, Healing Font is probably the most overrated ability in the game. It is very good, no doubt, but with the amount of free healing you can get in PF2, it's hardly essential. I'd have no problem playing a Warpriest with Cha 10.
As for Harm, I actually think it's decent for a warpriest. You're most likely in melee anyway, often giving you the opportunity to cast the 1 action version. Since Harm doesn't have the attack trait and doesn't require any kin of attack roll, it's a solid third action to do in any round. Even on a successful save, it's still more efective than missing that -10 attack with your weapon. And if you're worried about your spell DC: Don't dump Wisdom. 16, 12, 10, 10, 18, 12 is a perfectly viable first level Warpriest.
Deadly Simplicity has nothing to do with rarity. It doesn't do anything for the spiked chain becase it's a martial weapon and Deadly Simplicity only affects simple weapons. And only weapons with a damage die smaller than d8.Emphasis mine, to highlight the part I have a question about. It doesn't say so in the feat description, so could you tell me where to find that information? I'm going to be creating my character this weekend, and that seems pertinent because I've been compiling a list of likely deities based on their weapon damage potential.
You're right. It doesn't say anthing like that. Neither does the Champion's Deific Weapon feature, which does basically the same thing.
I swear, the ONE time I don't double check something before posting...
Apologies. I might have mixed this up with something else. Maybe something from the playtest, not sure.
Please disregard the sentence about the die size.
That being said, I think Abadar is the only currently available deity with a d8 simple weapon. At least I'm pretty certain Deadly Simplicity doesn't increase the two-handed d8 of Nethys' staff.
That being said, I think Abadar is the only currently available deity with a d8 simple weapon. At least I'm pretty certain Deadly Simplicity doesn't increase the two-handed d8 of Nethys' staff.
Correct, it doesn't improve traits, it only improves the base weapon die.
If I go Warpriest which Deity is best for that? Is Urgathoa viable? Seems like a Scythe is solid and even more so if he takes Athletic Rush when tripping his Trip ability should be quite high indeed.The viability (or lack thereof) of the Warpriest completely depends on what you're planning to do with the character. He's obviously not the best offensive caster, but can be a good healer, buffer and utility caster.
There's also no "best" deity for warpriest. There are a few sub-par ones, mostly those with weak-ish weapons like Abadar. But without knowing what you plan to do with him, there's no way to recommend a deity.
So what do you want to do? Melee? Tanking? Tripping? Healing? Casting spells? All those things can change a build quite dramatically.
The thing is he seems like an awesome class with Heal, but I'd like to try a Harm cleric and for that I feel he's not very strong. Heal seems much better. Then the other problem is his spell DCs will be too low to actually have Harm work half the time ugh.In my opinion, Healing Font is probably the most overrated ability in the game. It is very good, no doubt, but with the amount of free healing you can get in PF2, it's hardly essential. I'd have no problem playing a Warpriest with Cha 10.
As for Harm, I actually think it's decent for a warpriest. You're most likely in melee anyway, often giving you the opportunity to cast the 1 action version. Since Harm doesn't have the attack trait and doesn't require any kin of attack roll, it's a solid third action to do in any round. Even on a successful save, it's still more efective than missing that -10 attack with your weapon. And if you're worried about your spell DC: Don't dump Wisdom. 16, 12, 10, 10, 18, 12 is a perfectly viable first level Warpriest.
Interesting analysis, I like that stat array. Ideally I'd like to play a Warpriest who can deal damage but also occasionally be able to knock enemies prone whether that be through there weapon via Athletics or through Harm Castdown? I imagine that could certainly work with an 18 Wis. It seems like Harm with Castdown could be an extremely reliable way to knock a boss prone as long as they don't critically succeed which they likely won't with an 18 Wis.
Deadly Simplicity has nothing to do with rarity. It doesn't do anything for the spiked chain becase it's a martial weapon and Deadly Simplicity only affects simple weapons. And only weapons with a damage die smaller than d8.Emphasis mine, to highlight the part I have a question about. It doesn't say so in the feat description, so could you tell me where to find that information? I'm going to be creating my character this weekend, and that seems pertinent because I've been compiling a list of likely deities based on their weapon damage potential.You're right. It doesn't say anthing like that. Neither does the Champion's Deific Weapon feature, which does basically the same thing.
I swear, the ONE time I don't double check something before posting...
Apologies. I might have mixed this up with something else. Maybe something from the playtest, not sure.
Please disregard the sentence about the die size.
That being said, I think Abadar is the only currently available deity with a d8 simple weapon. At least I'm pretty certain Deadly Simplicity doesn't increase the two-handed d8 of Nethys' staff.
I imagine you got the language from the Ruffian Rogue Racket in there, which does have d8 maximum on the kind of weapons that they can use for sneak attack.
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I imagine you got the language from the Ruffian Rogue Racket in there, which does have d8 maximum on the kind of weapons that they can use for sneak attack.
That might have been it. But I still have no idea how my brain managed to link this to a cleric feat...
@Atalius: Cast Down -> Harm -> Strike doesn't sem too bad of a combo. Deals some near guaranteed damage with Harm and allows you to hit the target flat-footed. Not sure you'd need harming font for it since it works quite well even with a 1st level harm but at least the font gives you a few cast downs per day that deal a bit more damamge.
So yeah, if that's what you're going for, having a trip weapon as a backup trip option is surely a good idea. Urgathoa should work fine.
For my 3 skills which would you recommend? Could I take Medicine to heal myself? I see healing others is a no-no.
Would you recommend fighter dedication at 2 and 4 to snatch AOO?
Oh I just realized I got 12 Dex can't go AOO :(
If I go Warpriest which Deity is best for that? Is Urgathoa viable? Seems like a Scythe is solid and even more so if he takes Athletic Rush when tripping his Trip ability should be quite high indeed.The viability (or lack thereof) of the Warpriest completely depends on what you're planning to do with the character. He's obviously not the best offensive caster, but can be a good healer, buffer and utility caster.
There's also no "best" deity for warpriest. There are a few sub-par ones, mostly those with weak-ish weapons like Abadar. But without knowing what you plan to do with him, there's no way to recommend a deity.
So what do you want to do? Melee? Tanking? Tripping? Healing? Casting spells? All those things can change a build quite dramatically.
The thing is he seems like an awesome class with Heal, but I'd like to try a Harm cleric and for that I feel he's not very strong. Heal seems much better. Then the other problem is his spell DCs will be too low to actually have Harm work half the time ugh.In my opinion, Healing Font is probably the most overrated ability in the game. It is very good, no doubt, but with the amount of free healing you can get in PF2, it's hardly essential. I'd have no problem playing a Warpriest with Cha 10.
As for Harm, I actually think it's decent for a warpriest. You're most likely in melee anyway, often giving you the opportunity to cast the 1 action version. Since Harm doesn't have the attack trait and doesn't require any kin of attack roll, it's a solid third action to do in any round. Even on a successful save, it's still more efective than missing that -10 attack with your weapon. And if you're worried about your spell DC: Don't dump Wisdom. 16, 12, 10, 10, 18, 12 is a perfectly viable first level Warpriest.
I was thinking, instead of the 12 Dex could I have 10 Dex and 12 Con? I would then at level 1 pick up Heavy Armor proficiency (instead of improved initiative), does that work?
I was thinking, instead of the 12 Dex could I have 10 Dex and 12 Con? I would then at level 1 pick up Heavy Armor proficiency (instead of improved initiative), does that work?
Sure, that works. Just be aware that the only heavy armor that has a dex bonus of 0 is full plate. And you won't have the necessary strength to use that one effectively before level 5.
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On the other hand it will be a tie, since the 16 will allow him to get a +5 ac heavy plate, with the same ac of a breastplate with +1 dex.
True, though the Heavy Armor version will have -5 speed at the same AC as the Medium Armor version.
You'll also eventually (at 13th level) hit Expert in Medium Armor but not Heavy Armor, so that's a factor long term.