Dedication class DC

[K1]

Hi there,

How can I increase my rank for dedication classes dc?

I know that spellcasters requires you to pursue your spellcasting training from Basic to master, but what about other classes?

Like barbarian and fighter.

[Blave]

You can't as far as I'm aware.

[K1]

I am sgarting to think that dedication classes are useless apart from some perk you could get.

[Blave]

K1 wrote:

I am sgarting to think that dedication classes are useless apart from some perk you could get.

How so? Most martials hardly ever use their class DC for anything.

[K1]

Barbarian dragon's breath does.
As other stuff.

Also focus dc for champions and monks seems to remain low.

When a mob just needs 4+ to success there is something definitely wrong.

[Claxon]

There are a lot of options from those classes that don't involve DCs.

It's true some options get hosed for multiclass characters, I believe that might be intentional. To encourage you to play those classes if you wanted to focus on those abilities, rather than tapping into them from another class.

I also wouldn't be surprised if in the future they add additional options to the dedication archetypes that give you something along with increasing your proficiency in those dedication DCs.

[K1]

Claxon wrote:

There are a lot of options from those classes that don't involve DCs.

It's true some options get hosed for multiclass characters, I believe that might be intentional. To encourage you to play those classes if you wanted to focus on those abilities, rather than tapping into them from another class.

I also wouldn't be surprised if in the future they add additional options to the dedication archetypes that give you something along with increasing your proficiency in those dedication DCs.

It is stupid that way.

Encourage players not to play what they deliberately made in terms of multiclass, while some other traits work.

I mean, if a discouraging situation sees a non viable feat or attack, why put it that way to begin with?

You also assumed other archetypes.
Ok, so

1 talent wasted at first ( you Pick what you have too, but mostly could be useless like a champion, which only has 2 possibilities, while a fighter has around 10 )

Then 3 for dedication, Basic move and advanced move.

And you are lvl 12 now. So you spent more than half the campaign time to reach this point.

You have 3 class feat left if you want, but if you want another Archetype you ll have to sacrifice one more, because you will take the advanced move by lvl 12.

So you are with 2 feats letf.

See, this is not something addressable with more archetypes. They have to solve the balance issues with the actual ones instead.

If you start as a class x and dedicate and spend more talents on the off class than the main one, you should definitely be good in your off more than your main.

Or at least good enough to a draw.

[BellyBeard]

K1 wrote:

If you start as a class x and dedicate and spend more talents on the off class than the main one, you should definitely be good in your off more than your main.

Or at least good enough to a draw.

That's simply not how the system is designed. Spending feats will change your options, but not make you "better" at the offclass than your main class. Your main class is just that, your main identity for your abilities. If the barbarian's dragon breath weapon is more important to your character identity than your main class, just start as a barbarian and multiclass the other way instead. I realize it's not ideal, and doesn't cover every use case (in particular changing careers isn't possible with this system), but it's the only way to be good with those breath weapons.

[Claxon]

Just because you make a wizard monk multiclass doesn't mean you need to be as proficient as the actual monk in doing all the monk things. If that means that some options that rely on class DCs, like Quivering Palm (which you can't actually get since the level requirement would be too high but this is just an example) then...I'm okay with it.

Many things work just fine. Things that rely on a class DC don't.

I don't think it's a problem, just something players should be aware before they try to build around that route.

And I disagree with your conclusion, if you spent all your class feats on another classes abilities you might have considered making your character as the other class and dipping into the other with dedications.

In the end, I don't believe multiclass characters should ever be equal (in their second) to a character that is the class originally.

I guess in my mind it's as simple as "Don't choose class feats with DCs for your multiclass, they're not good".

[K1]

You won't be equal because :

1) you won't have the class perks.

2) you won't have talents above lvl 10.

Is everything ok till now?
Then,

I am not saying i want to be legendary with my dedicated class dc, but at least master as all the caster dedication classes can do.

And currently it sucks.
For no reasons.

To be clear, I should be able to do what the talent says, whatever my lvl.

A lvl 5 flurry of blow?
I will be able to do it as a monk by lvl 10. Even if my hands are not adamantine, and so on.

A lvl 12 xx?
I won'be able because of lvl requirements.

I guess that in order to better understand the current situation you shouod imagine the caster dedication with trained dc.

Ps: the fact that if anybody who willingfully prefers to entirely follow the rules will skip useless feats, is the Normal routine. If a horse will speed up 20 feet while you do 30, will you take a horse?
No, you won't.

But that would be talking about the obvious.
On the other hand people could understand that there is stuff which could have been emproved before the release.

[Squiggit]

There's no way. It feels kind of messy, just like the rest of proficiency in PF2.

It's only really an issue for martials and alchemists too, so it's unclear if this is intentional or an oversight. It'd feel pretty bad if this was on purpose, though.

Quote:

like Quivering Palm

Quivering palm is a focus spell and focus spells use the spellcaster's caster DC. So if you could theoretically get quivering palm as a wizard you'd be fine. Heck, the Wizard is better at using monk spells than monks, because their spell DC advances faster and eventually goes up to legendary while monks cap out at master.

Quote:

In the end, I don't believe multiclass characters should ever be equal (in their second) to a character that is the class originally.

I guess in my mind it's as simple as "Don't choose class feats with DCs for your multiclass, they're not good".

I feel like there a lot of grey area between "MC barbarian is a better barbarian than a regular barbarian" and "Never ever take this feat, it's basically a trap."

Besides, wasn't one of the points of PF2 to do away with the latter problem?

[First World Bard]

Squiggit wrote:

Quivering palm is a focus spell and focus spells use the spellcaster's caster DC. So if you could theoretically get quivering palm as a wizard you'd be fine. Heck, the Wizard is better at using monk spells than monks, because their spell DC advances faster and eventually goes up to legendary while monks cap out at master.

I don't think that example works, since as a Monk you pick if your focus spells are Divine or Occult. So you could maybe be a Cleric of Irori, Bard, or Sorceror of an appropriate bloodline, but not a Wizard.

[Squiggit]

Yeah, minor derp there. Just replace wizard with sorcerer for the example.