That Crazy Alchemist
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Source Alchemy Manual pg. 10
Price 4,000 gp; Slot wrists
Cytillesh spores seeded beneath the subject’s skin enable the subject to extend and contract fungal vines from its wrists and forearms at will. The subject gains two vine attacks per round, which count as secondary natural attacks with a reach of 10 feet. These vines deal no damage, but the fungal-grafted creature can attempt to pull a struck target up to 5 feet toward itself, as the pull universal monster ability (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 303).
If a player were to have this Fungal Graft and then quaff an Enlarge Person potion, what is the reach of the Reaching Vines?
A) 10ft, because Enlarge says that only your Natural Reach increases, and Reaching Vines doesn't use your Natural Reach?
2) 20ft, because Enlarge Person doubles your reach
Three) 15ft, because Enlarge essentially just adds 5ft to your attacks' reach.
IV) 0ft, because reasons...
=) Orange, because the voices in my head told me so.
| Meirril |
20' because the spell also changes your equipment to still fit you.
/cevah
How do you get that? From my thinking you're using a reach weapon that normally gives you a 10'. That is normal reach for a small or medium sized creature.
You enlarge to Large size. You have a base 10' reach, and a large sized reach weapon still gives the same extra 5' reach so you get out to 15'. Or am I wrong about that 5' reach for a large reach weapon and its actually 10'?
If that was the case then wouldn't it create this range at 15' where a large creature can't hit an opponent with either a reach weapon or a normal weapon because there is a gap where neither of them cover?
Magda Luckbender
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I won't try to answer the OP's question. I have no opinion and would hate to make that ruling as GM.
@Meirril and anyone curious: Here are Pathfinder Space and Reach diagrams. A Large creature wielding a reach weapon has 20' reach.
That Crazy Alchemist
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Reaching Vines doesn't appear to be a reach weapon so I'm not sure the reach weapon rules apply here.
And this isn't a one-off corner case issue either, there are several occurrences of this issue in the game. The White Haired witches Prehensile Hair which similarly has a specified reach of 10 without stating that it is a "reach weapon".
An Eidolon with the Reach evolution is the same way (yes I know the Large evolution states it's interaction with the Reach evolution, but as has been pointed out numerous times in the past, the Large evolution and Enlarge or other size changing effects are two very different effects)
Seems like an issue that I'm surprised has never been officially cleared up.
| LordKailas |
By the RAW I would say option A. Since the magic item just states that you gain a vine attack with 10 foot reach, completely independent of the size of the creature.
That being said, I'm sure the author was only considering medium sized creatures and it should probably just be considered a reach weapon (instead of stating it has a reach of 10 feet). In which case it would provide an appropriate reach based on your size. IOW option 2.
| Dave Justus |
The graft applied to a large creature would only give the same reach as it gives to a medium creature. But the Enlarge spell makes its bigger just as it makes the creatures equipment bigger. Thus (2) again.
/cevah
Even if the spores (that is what is actually grafted to you) are larger, how does that change the ability they have to extrude vines with a 10 ft reach?
I don't see how this could be anything but 10'.
| Danny StarDust |
I'd go for option Three/3/III/drie/Drei!!/trois, let me explain the math.
The vines have a reach of 10ft for a medium creature. A medium creature has a natural reach of 5ft. So in other words, the vines themself are "5ft long". Now, after feasting on a potion of enlarge person, the natural reach of that character is 10ft. The vines themselves, eventhought the equipment itself grows in size to still fit the character, don't grow (i.e. still 5ft long). The 10ft character now has a natural reach with his bare hands of 10ft and when using the vines (who are 5ft in lenght) can bash opponents at 15ft distance.