| Saradock Greenhand |
| Scott Wilhelm |
Medusa's Wrath doesn't work with Flurry of Blows. I think you should pick 1 or the other.
I normally think of Monk as being either a single class character that you just go with or a dip you take to get something you want.
Fox Style is a good choice for a Sneak Attack Character.
Crane Style is okay.
You don't need any levels in Monk to get 1 Style Feat. You can take the Rogue Talent Ninja Trick, and take Style Master. Another Ninja Trick I'm very fond of is Vanishing Trick. As a Swift Action, you can use the Vanish Spell, then use Stealth to stay hidden. Take the Rogue Talent False Attacker, that will let you strike from the shadows without breaking stealth.
Take 3 levels in Monk, and be a Drunken Master, so you can replenish your Ki endlessly by Drinking. If you are a Core Monk instead of an Unchained one, you can get Still Mind at level 3 which qualifies you for Monastic Legacy, which will allow your Monk Unarmed Strike Base Damage to Increase through your levels in Rogue. You can't do that as a Drunken Master, though: Drunken Masters don't get Still Mind. But the hide and strike from the shadows thing would work great with Ninja Vanishing Trick, False Attacker, Fox Style, and Medusa's Wrath.
| Saradock Greenhand |
Medusa's Wrath doesn't work with Flurry of Blows. I think you should pick 1 or the other.
I normally think of Monk as being either a single class character that you just go with or a dip you take to get something you want.
Fox Style is a good choice for a Sneak Attack Character.
Crane Style is okay.
You don't need any levels in Monk to get 1 Style Feat. You can take the Rogue Talent Ninja Trick, and take Style Master. Another Ninja Trick I'm very fond of is Vanishing Trick. As a Swift Action, you can use the Vanish Spell, then use Stealth to stay hidden. Take the Rogue Talent False Attacker, that will let you strike from the shadows without breaking stealth.
Take 3 levels in Monk, and be a Drunken Master, so you can replenish your Ki endlessly by Drinking. If you are a Core Monk instead of an Unchained one, you can get Still Mind at level 3 which qualifies you for Monastic Legacy, which will allow your Monk Unarmed Strike Base Damage to Increase through your levels in Rogue. You can't do that as a Drunken Master, though: Drunken Masters don't get Still Mind. But the hide and strike from the shadows thing would work great with Ninja Vanishing Trick, False Attacker, Fox Style, and Medusa's Wrath.
Why does Medusa's Wrath doesn't work with flurry of blows?
And because of my Monk Archtype I don't get Still Mind, instead a better version of Improved Feint at first level and basicly Greater feint at 6th. Also I'm using both unchained class specially because the core Monk flurry of blows really doesn't work well with multiclassing since it use my Monk BAB instead of just giving me extra attacks.
| Wonderstell |
Medusa's Wrath works with FoB. The feat triggers on full-attacks, and FoB is a full-attack.
Any particular reason you've taken the Guerrilla archetype?
Cover of Night is pretty strong if you can force Dim Light/Darkness and have some other way of achieving concealment other than light conditions since most enemies have darkvision. But it's not that good at higher levels since everything and their mother starts to walk around with blindsight/truesight.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Why does Medusa's Wrath doesn't work with flurry of blows?
Actually, I was mostly mistaken. I was thinking that the Flurry of Blows was a different Full Round Action that the Full Attack Action, but reviewing the material, I see that FOB is a kind of Full Attack Action.
Still, normally, you must have used Gorgon's Fist before you use Medusa's Wrath, which is a Standard Action. You must have used Scorpion Style before you have used Gorgon's Fist, which is another Standard Action. Those definitely can't be used with FoB.
And because of my Monk Archtype I don't get Still Mind
I'm not sure which is better: you should consider a different Archetype that gives you Still Mind for a few reasons:
Still Mind is good. It gives you a +2 on saving throw vs. Mind Effects. Unchained Monks have Poor Will Saves, and that's the most important Saving Throw there is. All kinds of Rogue have Poor Will Saves, too.
Also, normally, only Monk levels improve your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage. Monastic Legacy allows 1/2 your nonmonk Levels to count as Monk Levels with respect to Unarmed Strike Damage. I know your character will mostly do damage through Sneak Attacking, but it's worth considering diversifying: high Base Damage AND Sneak Attack Damage.
core Monk flurry of blows really doesn't work well with multiclassing since it use my Monk BAB instead of just giving me extra attacks.
That's fair. Core Monk Flurry of Blows will continue to increase along with your Base Attack Bonus in any event, but since you are thinking of being a Rogue/Monk and not a Fighter/Monk, you will definitely end up with fewer attacks with FOB than with single-classing Core Monk.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Your Fox Style Feats grant lots of +4 bonuses when your Intelligence is 19. It would be a shame if you can't get your intelligence there.
If your goal is Dex-to-Damage and use Bluff to lock in Sneak Attack Damage, it would make more sense, I think, to make your Strength 8 and your Charisma 10. Then make your Charisma higher than 10!
And since your character is Strength-Dumping and going for Dex-to-Damage + Weapon Finesse, maybe it would be better to get those sooner than later and get those 3 levels in Rogue first, then develop as a Monk.
Which Minor Magic are you using?
Cover of Night is cool, but I noticed your character is a Human, so you don't have Darkvision. How are you sorting that out?
It looks like Bluff is the only method you have for achieving Sneak Attack Damage, and that seems like a problem. I always prefer to have a good 2 or 3 different means of locking in the Sneak Attack Damage.
You should take a look at the Feats Sap Adept and Knockout Artist. Each gives a +1 Damage per Sneak Attack Damage Die. It does mean doing nonlethal Damage, but it is kind of a lot of Damage.
Sap Master actually doubles your nonlethal Sneak Attack Damage Dice, but that only works if you have your opponent properly Flatfooted, not just denied his Dex Mod to AC. That would mean taking Dazzling Display (the prereq), Shatter Defenses, and maybe Cornugeon Smash to deliver Shatter Defenses. That would involve taking your character in a different direction. Tough call. Your call.
Your character is a good candidate for the Accomplished Sneak Attacker Feat. It gives your an extra +1d6.
Consider the Rogue Talents: False Attacker, Honeyed Words, and Coax Information. They all work off of Bluff, and it looks like you are emphasizing Bluff.
If you dipped a level in the Living Monolith Prestige Class, you could Enlarge as a Swift Action. That would increase your Base Damage and your Reach by 5', and that means Attacks of Opportunity. It would require taking Iron Will, which would not go amiss, since it looks like your character needs Will Save help. Enlarge Person does lower your Dex by 2 for the Duration, and that is bad for your character. Again, tough call and your call.
| Scott Wilhelm |
So, in your combiniation of Monk/Rogue, you seem to have decided to be a Monk with some levels in Rogue. Tell us why.
How would you feel if you had a character that was mostly a Rogue with a few levels in Monk?
Or is what you want most? Optimization, never mind how?
What is it that you like most about being a Monk?
What is it that you like most about being a Rogue?
What is it that you like most about being a Human?
I have advice that might stray from any or all of these things, but I am lacking 1 major qualification in giving you the advice that will lead to your maximum happiness: I'm not you.
My approach to character building is different from most people's, I think. Most people seem to be thinking, "How do I make an awesome Fighter?" I think, "Hey this combination of Feats, Spells, and Class Abilities is pretty cool, how do I work it in?"
I have a character build that uses some of your ideas. It has some levels in Monk, some in Rogue, but I made it along particular principles that may or may not work for you.
So, what do you prioritize most?
| Saradock Greenhand |
Still, normally, you must have used Gorgon's Fist before you use Medusa's Wrath, which is a Standard Action. You must have used Scorpion Style before you have used Gorgon's Fist, which is another Standard Action. Those definitely can't be used with FoB.
I don't know why, but I thought Medusa Wrath would proc with my feint. I just re-read the feint and realize it doesn't. Guess it give me 3 open slot for feat xD.
Still Mind is good. It gives you a +2 on saving throw vs. Mind Effects. Unchained Monks have Poor Will Saves, and that's the most important Saving Throw there is. All kinds of Rogue have Poor Will Saves, too.
I totally agree with you that Still mind is Super-Good, but here is the reason why I have this archtype:
When using flurry of blows to make melee attacks, a brazen disciple can forgo his first attack to attempt a Bluff check to feint. At 6th level, when a brazen disciple successfully feints, his opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC until the end of the monk’s turn.
This ability replaces the monk’s bonus feats at 1st level and at 6th level.
Also, normally, only Monk levels improve your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage. Monastic Legacy allows 1/2 your nonmonk Levels to count as Monk Levels with respect to Unarmed Strike Damage. I know your character will mostly do damage through Sneak Attacking, but it's worth considering diversifying: high Base Damage AND Sneak Attack Damage.
I see that Monastic Legacy can be pretty awsome, but since I only take 4 level as Rogue is it really worth it a feat slot? I mean it's two extra level of unarmed damage. How is it compared to other option I'd have?(This is an actual question I have no clue if it's worth)
Your Fox Style Feats grant lots of +4 bonuses when your Intelligence is 19. It would be a shame if you can't get your intelligence there.
Might be a good idea, how would I get that much Int tho? maybe a headband buffing int and wis?
Your character is a good candidate for the Accomplished Sneak Attacker Feat. It gives your an extra +1d6.
I Love that Feat, I can't belive I didn't found it before.
You should take a look at the Feats Sap Adept and Knockout Artist. Each gives a +1 Damage per Sneak Attack Damage Die. It does mean doing nonlethal Damage, but it is kind of a lot of Damage.
Those two looks amazing on the build, and I have open feat slot.
So, in your combiniation of Monk/Rogue, you seem to have decided to be a Monk with some levels in Rogue. Tell us why.
I always had a sweet spot for the monk, but I wouldn't mind having more rogue than mok on this build.
So, what do you prioritize most?
Having an evasive melee character, using FoB and sneak attack. I really like the idea of using feait to lock in the sneak attack damage.
What is it that you like most about being a Monk?
What is it that you like most about being a Rogue?
What is it that you like most about being a Human?
Monk: I like to have to be an evasive melee character and I like the concept of the Ki and FoB.
Rogue: Mainly for the sweet sneak attack damage and Dex to attack and Damage help a lot with the idea of an evasive characterHuman: I pretty much don't mind the race that much, I'm allowed to play any core or featured race exept the aasimar. (Tiefling Heritage are allowed)
| Scott Wilhelm |
I see that Monastic Legacy can be pretty awsome, but since I only take 4 level as Rogue is it really worth it a feat slot? I mean it's two extra level of unarmed damage. How is it compared to other option I'd have?(This is an actual question I have no clue if it's worth)
It isn't worth it if you are only taking 4 levels in Rogue. It might be worthwhile if you decided to be a Rogue with some levels in Monk rather than a Monk with some levels in Rogue.
| Scott Wilhelm |
I always had a sweet spot for the monk, but I wouldn't mind having more rogue than mok on this build.... Monk: I like to have to be an evasive melee character and I like the concept of the Ki and FoB.
I recently posted a build that is more Rogue than Monk. He doesn't use Flurry of Blows, but he is a very evasive melee character. Meet BONZAI!! .
This character gets multiple attacks from Panther and Snake Style. He locks in Sneak Attack Damage from Improved Feint and Snake Feint, also from Flanking aided by Dimensional Slide.
I'm using some of the ideas you are using, but it's a radically different character from yours, but that doesn't necessarily make it better, but you might find ideas you like in it.
But it does occur to me that you could get multiple attacks through Attacks of Opportunity instead of Full Attacking, then focus on accumulating Sneak Attack Damage, which can result in more Damage, if your opponents are vulnerable to SA Damage in the first place. Of course, one of the things they changed when made Pathfinder from DnD 3.5 is that they made a lot more things susceptible to Precision Damage.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Human: I pretty much don't mind the race that much, I'm allowed to play any core or featured race exept the aasimar. (Tiefling Heritage are allowed)
So, how about Tengu? It occurs to me that you can get more Attacks/round with a Natural Attack approach than you can ever get with a FoB approach. And once you have a few ways to get your Sneak Attack Damage, then you can accumulate massive Damage/Attack through Sneak Attack multiplied by your many attacks.
Tengu get a Bite Attack. 2 Claw Attacks are Available as an Alternative Racial Trait. You can get a Gore Attack as a Barbarian Rage Power or through either of 2 magic items: the Animal Mask or the Helm of the Mammoth Lord. You can dip a level in White Haired Witch and get a Hair Attack. So that's 3 Attacks at level 1. 5 Attacks by level 3 if you are impatient.
If you take Quick Dirty Tricks, you can Blind your opponents as one of your Attacks, and if you run into an opponent with Blindsight or something, you can play another Dirty Trick to make them Deaf, too: that should do for them. Improved Dirty Tricks can be taken as a Rogue Talent: Under handed Trick.
Take Gang Up, and you will have an easier time Flanking. Dip a level in Arcanist and take Dimensional Slide, and you will have an even easier time Flanking, plus you can use Magic Wands without needing Use Magical Device, wands such as Greater Invisibility and Disguise Self.
For a build like this, you can still get Dex-to-Damage, but it's much less effective, since each of your Natural Attacks is a different weapon, and that means you shouldn't Strength Dump favor of Dex. It might not matter that much, since your Damage will come mostly from Sneak Attacking, not an Ability Mod.
Of course, this is a completely different approach to a character, and you wouldn't be the first to be uncomfortable with it.
| Saradock Greenhand |
So, how about Tengu?
As I said, I don't mind that much of the race. So why not
Attacks/round with a Natural Attack approach than you can ever get with a FoB approach
I know how devastating Natural Attack build can be, specially at low-level (got an Abyssal Bloodrager in my party, HE'S A MONSTER), but I would really prefer limiting the multicalss to 2 class (main class + other class), because my GM might cringe a little if I come at the table with a 3 or 4 class build...
| Scott Wilhelm |
my GM might cringe a little if I come at the table with a 3 or 4 class build...
Oh dear, BONZAI!! has 7 classes! Your GM would lock himself in the closet if you brought Bonzai to the table!
3 Classes is actually Old School. One of the most common characters to play in 1st Edition was an Elven Fighter/Magic User/Thief.
Still, you know your GM best.
As I said, I don't mind that much of the race. So why not [Tengu?]
A single class Tengu can have 3 Natural Attacks: 2 Claws and a Bite. The Gore could be gotten via a Wondrous Item instead of a dip: Helm of the Mammoth Lord or Animal Mask, but the Hair Attack comes through another dip. There are other way to get more Attacks with no more dipping. I could confidently get you up to 8.
Monk: I like to have to be an evasive melee character and I like the concept of the Ki and FoB.
And do you really prefer to Full Attack, or how do you feel about running around the battlefield getting multiple attacks through Movement, like being a Monk, Master of Many Styles getting Free Action Attacks and lots of Attacks of Opportunity?
A Panther-Snake Monk would, if anything, be even more evasive than a FoB Monk, and Panther/Snake Style would work well in conjunction with Scorpion Style, but if you really like FoB, you should use it, and I should help you.
If you really like Ki Powers, you should take the Quinngong Archetype. Quingong is an Archetype you can pretty much take in addition to any other Archetype, and they give you lots of other optional Ki Powers.