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Ok so I'm looking for some advice on this problem.
Player wants to play a very cute, naive, book-smart cleric.
So this sounds like a relatively low-wis person, it in fact sounds more like a wizardly type.
She characterised her as a bit of a hippy but also nerdy type.
In pathfinder 2, based on what we know so far, is there a way to maybe play a caster, very very very strong preference for the cleric class, with a strong emphasis on divine magic and supportive class features that doesn't rely on Wisdom?
She wants to play the overly-friendly healer type who is very optimistic and kind, a little flirty and has no idea how the world actually works.
Basically all her actual training and skill as a practitioner of her faith and the associated powers come from studying her holy book and participating in the rituals of her faith. Practically raised by the temple more than any real family.
In my head I can absolutely see this character exist and in PF1 I'd in a heartbeat just use one of the many tricks to make her use Cha or Int to cast spells that clerics have access to but in PF2 I'm clueless if this might be possible.
Important Edit: This is very much a homebrew friendly campaign in my own setting with plenty of custom content.
I will accept answers like "Just make it an archtype/replace class feature thing, do a feat tax, etc" just please do add some detail or make it otherwise constructive rather than dismissive.
Apologies if that sounds very demanding. Thank you very much.
My hard-copy won't arrive till Thursday and I do not have a PDF because I ordered the books on Bol.com for the netherlands as I lack a credit card.
Me and the player in question are already super excited and hoping we can figure something out in advance to hit the ground running and get this new campaign up asap.
Maybe go with the celestial sorcerer?
Or she could go with a wizard and invest in the medicine skill for the healing.
Any class with a medicine skill and/or cleric dedication feats could work really, if all she wants is a "healer type".
What bloodlines gain the divine spell list?
Celestial seems off flavour for a very long and complicated reason to exhaustive to list but let's for now say that while her character will be really nice and friendly to the rest of the party and people she likes. She will be a vicious little s%!~ to those outside her 'clan' so to speak.... which may or may not be as a result of her deity being more neutral leaning than good and her currently imagined species being Kobold. (already hard to work on a Kobold ancestry for her)
Demonic also gets the divine spell list right? Could be more on-brand. Any others?
She sounds a lot like a character that I am building. I would second the idea of building her as a sorcerer with the celestial bloodline, which gives her access to the divine spell list -- so she has the exact same spell list that a cleric would have. At 2nd level, I would suggest that she take either Alchemist Dedication or Wizard Dedication in order to play up her book smarts.
For ability scores, I would aim for getting her Int and Cha to 16 if possible, leaving Wis at 10. I have no idea where you want to go with her physical stats, but I am guessing that they will end up in the 12-14 range.
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So lets go over the ABCs as Paizo uses that for character creation
A(Ancestry): Gnome or Human
B(Background): Scholar of Religion or Acolyte
C(Class): Cleric or Sorcerer w.the Angelic Bloodline
Her stats as a Gnome Sorcerer Acolyte
str: 8 -1
Dex: 14 +2
Con: 14 +2
Int: 14 +2
Wis: 14 +2
Cha: 16 +3
With this character they aren't the strongest caster but they are ok, additionally with the idea your character would rely more on their talking ability which is Cha as to why I raised that to the highest.
Her Stats as a Human Cleric Scholar very similar to the Gnome
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 10
int: 14
Wis: 16
Cha: 16
Here she doesn't have that negative to Str or that positive to Con but a well rounded character. With a 16 in Wis and Cha she is very well rounded. Those are my ideas on how you would build that character.
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Note that while Wisdom controls the Cleric's DC and spell attack rolls, you don't need to have 10+spell-lvl Wisdom to cast a spell of that level.
So you can play a low-Wis Cleric and just focus hard on buffing/healing allies (things that don't rely on Wis) and pump your Charisma for maximum extra heals.
Or if it's homebrew friendly as you say, just swap everything Charisma and Wisdom do for the Cleric and go with that instead of the divine sorcerer!
Besides spell-list being the same for a Divine bloodline sorc and a cleric... what are the other major differences in terms of class features?
She really wants to hit hard on team play but her character's religion and very clan/family/tribal mentality makes Angelic a poor fit.
She really is quite vicious towards people who have not earned her trust or respect.
I.E. to people in her party and from her temple and town, she's a lovely angel but to the rest of the world she's a real.... piece of work.
@jquest716
Very lovely and detailed response for more build-centric advice but you seem to have missed the point about low-wisdom.
Besides spell-list being the same for a Divine bloodline sorc and a cleric... what are the other major differences in terms of class features?
She really wants to hit hard on team play but her character's religion and very clan/family/tribal mentality makes Angelic a poor fit.
She really is quite vicious towards people who have not earned her trust or respect.
I.E. to people in her party and from her temple and town, she's a lovely angel but to the rest of the world she's a real.... piece of work.@jquest716
Very lovely and detailed response for more build-centric advice but you seem to have missed the point about low-wisdom.
She could go with diabolic/infernal bloodline to get Divine list. Gets some command/mental influence spells and domain powers and a lil fire if she wants.
Maybe she doesn't know her power comes from a diabolic source and would fit with being vicious to outsiders and ppl she doesn't trust
The main difference at level 1 will be the focus spells that are different, the Cleric have divine font that grant some extra heals/harms while Sorcerer have bloodline magic, the Celestial per example every time that it uses the heal spell it gives the target +1 bonus to saving throws.
She could go with diabolic/infernal bloodline to get Divine list. Gets some command/mental influence spells and domain powers and a lil fire if she wants.
That actually sounds perfect for her character concept. I'll try pitching that one to her.
By the way -- Cleric Dedication is probably a bad idea for this character, as it requires a wisdom score of 14+. An actual cleric can get by with a lower wisdom score than that.
One other idea -- If you are trying to dump wisdom and don't want to go the two flaws for an extra bonus route, consider making the character a goblin. I think they are the only ancestry with a fixed flaw in wisdom.
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I'd like to just take a post to thank everybody for the advice so far.
It's why I love these forums even if I frequent them too rarely.
With everything mentioned so far I'm feeling confident when I get the book this Thursday and visit her we can start drafting up that character quickly, now knowing what places to start looking.
I do however have one quick question:
Does the Bestiary still include some mention of "as a character race" for things such as Orcs, Kobolds*, Lizardfolk, Drow etc?
(Kobold* being the relevant one for her, most likely.)
I'd like to just take a post to thank everybody for the advice so far.
It's why I love these forums even if I frequent them too rarely.With everything mentioned so far I'm feeling confident when I get the book this Thursday and visit her we can start drafting up that character quickly, now knowing what places to start looking.
I do however have one quick question:
Does the Bestiary still include some mention of "as a character race" for things such as Orcs, Kobolds*, Lizardfolk, Drow etc?(Kobold* being the relevant one for her, most likely.)
No, looking at the kobold entry in the beastairy there's nothing about them being playable. Same for the others. Lizardmen are coming in the lost omens book I think.
I'd like to just take a post to thank everybody for the advice so far.
It's why I love these forums even if I frequent them too rarely.With everything mentioned so far I'm feeling confident when I get the book this Thursday and visit her we can start drafting up that character quickly, now knowing what places to start looking.
I do however have one quick question:
Does the Bestiary still include some mention of "as a character race" for things such as Orcs, Kobolds*, Lizardfolk, Drow etc?(Kobold* being the relevant one for her, most likely.)
The bestiary includes no ancestries at all. It’s purely a big book of monsters.
Then I suppose it's best I try my best at a solid kobold ancestry homebrew. unless the rest of the party throws her a curveball, that's her preferred species for this character. She wanted to try something very inhuman and kobolds are adorable and fit her religion's infatuation with dragons.
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Goblins can love dragons (FIYAAA) you could perhaps reskin a goblin for the time being.
About the only help the Bestiary provides for new races is that you might be able to scrounge the entries for certain monsters (mainly planar scions) for Heritage ideas to apply to existing ancestries and possibly cherry pick some existing ancestry feats to associate with new Heritages. Creating new ancestries from scratch using the Bestiary entries would be very challenging as there simply isn't enough information there to do that work without considerable creativity.
Can bards still cast healing spells ?
Well Kobolds are dripping in flavour from my old D&D books, PF1 content and other misc sources, building this ancestry shouldn't be difficult at all.
It's more a question of what to cut than what to add with just how much juicy flavour and mechanical history kobolds have.
And as for bard, I might suggest to her considering the Bard dedication but the core concept really doesn't fit Bard directly mechanically.
The fact that Soothe is an inferior form of healing would also turn her off.
But yeah... as a MC feat... that has potential.
Especially with my setting's dragons being renowned for their songs and aerial dancing forming essential parts of their courtship and magic.
Certainly worth exploring more at least, maybe she will change her mind.