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Ok, as I mentioned in another thread, I was looking at some of my characters and I realized that some of them weren't finished. In a few cases, they just needed some equipment. A couple of others didn't have their feats and class features on the sheets, but the feats themselves were in a forum thread. But some don't seem to have their feats written down anywhere and I have no idea what I had picked out for them originally. I've checked the forums here but can't find anything.
So I'm asking for some feedback for them. The first is a half-orc Inquisitor with both the Ravener Hunter and Sanctified Slayer archetypes. She is ranged focused and will be taking the Battle Mystery with Weapon Mastery as the first revelation.
Besides the obvious feats of Point-Black Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot, what are some good feats for a ranged focused character?
If your attack is up there then deadly aim converts attack into damage. Later manyshot & clustered shots are useful. You can go for empty quiver style if you're worried about being caught in melee, or improved critical/critical focus/impact critical shot/other critical feats if you're a gambler, craft magic arms and armor to make all those specific arrows you wouldn't be able to afford full price, ranged trip/martial focus/ace trip to stop enemies running up to you, improved precise shot to avoid cover, far shot if you might be fighting at extreme ranges (like between ships), defensive feats if you're paranoid about saves/HP, extra revelation if you like the battle revelations...
Note that the background of the Ravener hunter archetype suggests that you're one of the catfolk of Murraseth.
Deadly Aim's basically the ranged version of Power Attack, right? I will look at Empty Quiver and the others.
She's a half-orc actually. With Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored.
Ok, so the first trait Mazon, my Half-Orc Inquisitor, has is Fate's Favored. I'm wondering what the second should be.
I've got it narrowed down to three that I like - Reactionary, Gruff Watcher, and Weapon Training.
I like Weapon Training since it'll give her a bit of bonus damage with her Longbow. While Gruff Watcher gives +1 to both Initiative and Perception.
Focused Target gives you +attack/damage/DCs/skills, very flexibly.
I think Reactionary is even more important than you may think. Prebuffing is super massive for Inquisitors, and even with Cunning Initiative, you really want to make sure you drop that Divine Favor.
Also I hate that Fate's Favored cheese. I wonder why didn't they errata the bonus into a racial bonus like every other one, or made Fate's Favored's power more in line with other traits.
That's a decent possibility for level 5 or higher.
Well, Fate's Favored does work on any luck bonus, including items and spells. It's the alternate racial trait Sacred Tattoo that's the racial trait.
So far, the feat plan looks like this:
Feats:
1: Point-Blank Shot
1: Weapon Focus (Class bonus)
3: Precise Shot
3: Demon Hunter (Class bonus)
5:
6: (TW, Class bonus)
7:
8: Improved Critical (Class bonus)
8: (Combat feat, Class bonus)
9:
9: (TW, Class bonus)
11:
12: Greater Weapon Focus (Class bonus)
12: (TW, Class bonus)
She also gets another Battle Mystery Revelation and a Slayer Talent at level 8. I'm unsure what Revelation to take. Skill At Arms gets Martial Weapon and Heavy Armor Proficiency. That would allow an Orc Hornbow to be used. But I would need to choose a different one if I play this character in PFS since Orc Hornbows aren't allowed there, I believe.
For the Slayer Talent, I'm going with Rogue Talent: Combat Trick to get a combat feat there.
For the 8th level Revelation for PFS, something like Sudden Charge should be really handy to get out of trouble quick.
As for the Slayer Talent... Trapfinding?
Do you mean Surprising Charge? It does look handy, being able to move up to base speed and still be able to full attack.
There aren't many teamwork feats I really like for a ranged character. In fact, there are only 4 - Coordinated Shot, Enfilading Fire, Friendly Fire Maneuvers, and Outflank.
Enfilading Fire needs another teamwork feat before I can take it. And Outflank needs a BAB of 4, which an Inquisitor doesn't get until level 6. Either of the others could be taken at level 5 if I wanted to.
I don't think I'm going to take Deadly Aim. It's basically Power Attack for bows, but there are only 4 other feats that need it and 3 of them are maneuver based. There's over 80 that need Power Attack. (And none that need the Dex-based version Piranha Strike.) There are a lot more things that can give a penalty to a ranged attack than a melee, so there's not really a good reason to take another one for just a bit of damage.
Deadly Aim is scaling damage! It's a lot of bang for the buck for 1 feat.
I'll consider it, but building up to level 12, she only has 5 free feats, not including the 3 that have to be teamwork.
If you get just one of the feats I named then take manyshot. A free extra attack without adding penalties is about as good as you can get. Clustered shot can be simulated by having a dozen different kinds of arrows, and you may prefer reliable hitting over the mean damage increase of deadly aim.
I get that you've made this character a half-orc, but you probably want to build some sort of contact with Murraseth or one of its inhabitants into your character's backstory because that's where the archetype comes from - where there are inquisitors who hunt the servants of the Ravener King,
Manyshot is definitely on the list, I'm just going through them all to decide what goes where.
And understood.
5. Rapid Shot
You're not an archer until you have this
6TW. Coordinated Shot
You need something before Enfilading Fire
7. Improved Initiative
Going first is essential
8. Clustered Shots
Getting past DR is imperative
9. Manyshot
Add extra arrows after Clustered Shots
9TW. Enfilading Fire
This is the one you wanted
11. Iron Will or Toughness
Survivability is important
12TW. Friendly Fire Maneuvers
It's nice and it's a bonus anyways
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I agree that Manyshot and Clustered Shot are both tremendously useful feats for any archer.
You might consider some of the more defensive Teamwork feats for level 6. Perhaps Shake It Off for a significant save bonus when clustered up with your party, Lookout to get a full round attack off in the surprise round, or Escape Route so you can GTFO when an enemy gets into melee range without drawing an attack of opportunity as long as you are adjacent to an ally. Remember, you can switch your most recent TW feat as a standard action, wis mod times per day.
Extended Bane might be a good choice for level 7, depending on the length of your adventuring day.
I'm thinking of going ahead and building this character all the way to level 20. There's just a lot of nifty feats that I like but don't have the room for just going up to level 12.
Going all the way to 20, there are 8 free feat slots, one feat at level 8 that has to be a combat feat due to the slayer talent, 5 feats that have to be teamwork, the revelation at level 8, and 3 more slayer talents. The level one and 3 feats are decided as Point-Black and Precise Shot, and the class gives Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, and Greater Weapon Focus. And Demon Hunter, but I doubt that will be used at all.
Ok, I've gone through all the feats, revelations, and slayer talents. I think I've got a plan that I like.
1: Point-Blank Shot
1: Weapon Focus Longbow
3: Precise Shot
3: Demon Hunter
5: Rapid Shot: When full attacking with a bow, can make one extra attack. All attacks take -1 Atk when using this.
6: Coordinated Shot: If your ally with this feat is threatening an opponent and is not providing cover to that opponent against your ranged attacks, you gain a +1 bonus on ranged attacks against that opponent. If your ally with this feat is flanking that opponent with another ally, this bonus increases to +2.
7: Manyshot: When full attacking, roll damage twice for first shot. Precision and crit damage only applies once. Needs Dex 17.
8: Improved Critical Longbow
8: Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Snap Shot: Threaten adjacent squares and can make AoOs with ranged weapon.
8: Revelation: Surprising Charge: Twice a day, can move up to your speed as an immediate action. Three times at level 15.
9: Clustered Shots: When making multiple ranged attacks, apply DR only once.
9: Enfilading Fire: You receive a +2 bonus on ranged attacks made against a foe flanked by 1 or more allies with this feat.
11: Dodge: +1 Dodge AC
12: Greater Weapon Focus Longbow
12: Outflank: Flanking bonus increases to +4.
13: Focused Shot: Standard action, can add Int to damage with a bow. Must be within 30 feet and foes immune to crits and sneak attack are immune to this.
15: Improved Precise Shot: Ignore anything less than total cover or concealment. Needs 19 Dex.
15: Friendly Fire Maneuvers: Allies who also have this feat cannot provide soft cover to enemies, allowing you to make attacks of opportunity against an enemy even if those allies grant you soft cover against that foe’s attacks. If an ally who also has this feat casts a spell that targets the area you are in as it allows a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect (such as fireball), you gain a +4 dodge bonus on that saving throw.
16: Slayer Talent: Deadly Range: Can increase range you can deal sneak attack damage by 10 feet.
17: Bullseye Shot: Move action, gain +4 Atk on next ranged attack.
17: Slayer Talent: Bleeding Attack: Deal +1 bleed damage per Sneak Attack die.
18: Ferocious Loyalty: +1 morale Atk against foes threatening an ally with this feat. If ally with this feat is killed or rendered helpless, bonus increases to +2 for one minute or the foe is helpless or killed.
19: Impact Critical Shot: When you confirm a crit, if the confirmation roll is higher than the target’s CMD, you can push them back as if from a bull rush or knock them prone as if from a trip. Doesn’t provoke.
20: Slayer Talent: Deadly Range: Can increase range you can deal sneak attack damage by 10 feet.
Now I just need to equip her. Since it'll be starting gold only, I may hold off on getting bunches of different arrow types and just stick with cold iron and blunt until I actually start playing her and get more gold.
A couple of changes I'd make - slayer talents can be used to get ranger combat styles. Switch the 16/17 level talents for archery style talents and while the first one is mostly a waste (far shot?) because you have the better feats on that list already, the second can be point blank master which is useful.
Snap shot isn't that useful unless you build on it with the improved snap shot feat at least. Double down or drop it IMO.
Anything which limits you to one attack in a round (focused shot, bullseye shot) is pretty useless. Dump them unless you're going to go all-in for a vital strike build.
No idea why you have outflank there at level 12. Coordinated shot and enfilading fire aren't affected by it if that's what you're thinking.
I needed a teamwork feat there and couldn't think of anything that would work. They don't stack at all?
I will keep all that in mind.
Are barbed arrows sold in bunches or singly? The entry in Archives isn't clear. Are they worth getting? What about thistle arrows?
Aside from Cold Iron, most of the special materials that can be made into arrows are a bit too expensive for just starting out. Same with the magic arrows. And the regular arrows that have special effects mostly don't seem worth it. With a range of 100 feet before any penalties, an arrow that does less damage for just 10 feet more is definitely not worth buying. Same with an arrow that makes noise.
Barbed & thistle arrows are singles. Probably none of the special arrows are worth getting at level 1, they're noticeably expensive you're right. Maybe a tangleshot arrow or two. Once you have a composite bow made for your strength you might well get fancy arrows if you're in a place you can buy such things.
And no those feats don't depend on the bonus you get when flanking in melee - which is all outflank affects.
Ok, I'll switch it out. Not sure what for, but I'll find something.
The d20 site says that the barbed arrows are sold in bunches of 20 like regular arrows. But either way, I think I'll pass on them for now. The tangleshot arrows might be pretty good. There are also durable arrows, but I think I'll wait and see how the GM handles arrow usage first.
So I'm not sure exactly what I should change the feats with, but I think I've got all the equipment she's going to have starting out.
Longbow, 20 Cold Iron Arrows, 20 Blunt Arrows, 5 Thistle Arrows, Masterwork Backpack, Dagger, Bedroll, Hip Flask, Wooden Holy Symbol, Silk Rope, Lamellar Cuirass, and Flint & Steel.
She's down to only 75 gold, so I'm going to hold off on the tangleshot arrows for now. No shield since a longbow is a two-handed weapon.
Now for spells. Inquisitors are spontaneous casters. At level one, they know 4 level zero spells and 2 level one spells. The archetype lets me put any cleric spells with the good descriptor on the list. Sadly, Spark doesn't have that descriptor so I can't take it.
I'm thinking of these:
LV 0: Create Water, Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic
LV 1: Cure Light Wounds. Maybe Bowstaff. That one might be changed.
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You can get a buckler to use with a bow. You won't get a shield bonus in rounds where you've used the bow, but the boost to your flat-footed AC is helpful, and there's no penalty.
I wouldn't take CLW as one of my precious spells known as an inquisitor unless you won't have any access to purchasing wands. Divine Favor is the classic inquisitor combat buff spell. Expeditious Retreat and Protection from Evil are always useful. Depending on what books you have, Keep Watch and Strand of the Tangled Knot are excellent choices.
Once you get level 2 spells, Burst of Radiance has the good descriptor, and it's fantastic.
I know that Cure Light Wounds is a spell that's on a lot of spell lists, but it's always a good thing to know.
I actually don't have any of the books. I get everything from d20pfsrd or Archives of Nethys.
At 1st level the main difference between bowstaff & drawing a backup melee weapon is that you don't have to carry the backup melee weapon. You're making a standard action attack either way. Once you have a magic bow, maybe.
Actually a good, simple spell to get is magic weapon if you're not getting divine favor. +1 attack & damage & you can beat DR/magic.
One penalty of using a buckler (as suggested by keerawa) is that two-handed weapons take -1 to attack while you're wearing it. I wouldn't, personally.
Are you asking for more detail on exactly which feats I think your inquisitor would be best to take?
True. I think I'll go with Divine Favor.
Feedback's always nice. I mostly just haven't gone back through the feats. I figured getting the equipment and spells would be faster and then I can finish the feats.
Just a fun sidenote: a Bane/Flurry of Bows blunt arrow attack literally just killed the oldest thing in all of Golarion... 10,000+ year old Cyclops Lich... 187damage vs 241hp... brutal.
When a Lich older than time doesn't even have time to run away, special arrows matter.
Just a fun sidenote: a Bane/Flurry of Bows blunt arrow attack literally just killed the oldest thing in all of Golarion... 10,000+ year old Cyclops Lich... 187damage vs 241hp... brutal.
When a Lich older than time doesn't even have time to run away, special arrows matter.
Nice. It's always fun when you one-shot something that you shouldn't be able to do that to.
How come there are feats and archetypes on the d20 website that aren't on Archives even though they are Paizo? If you don't check both sites, you can miss a bunch of stuff. For example, Point-Blank Master is not on the list for a Ranger Combat Style feat on Archives. But it's there on d20.
That feat's on AoN, but the text of the archery combat style wasn't updated to add it. AoN's got some great search features but it's not as good as d20pfsrd at updating old text with new. Probably because they don't like adding original text or changing the text to something which isn't in the books, and you'd more or less have to do one or the other to add PBM to that list.
Yeah. I'll just keep doing what I usually do and check both sites.
Ok, for the teamwork feat to replace Outflank, there's one called Blood for the Empire. It gives a +2 bonus to attack and damage against a target hit by an ally in the last round. If an ally with the feat dies within 30 feet of you, you get the effects of Haste for one round.
Thing is, it's a morale bonus so that means it won't stack with Ferocious Loyalty. It's also a little more situational.
There are a couple of good ones if others in the party are fighting with ranged weapons, but that's not something you can be certain of. And of course, there's always the good old Shake It Off feat. Yeah, you need to be adjacent to get the benefits, but it's better than nothing.
There's also the possibility of getting friendly fire maneuvers 3 levels earlier. Also remember that as an inquisitor the latest teamwork feat can be switched a few times; the plan for them doesn't have to be set in stone.
True. I was thinking of moving them up.
Ooo a archer inquisitor...I have a little experience in that :P So I'm gonna limit myself to 11th level since I've been playing this character 7 years and I've spent a bit of time analyzing it. I considered the Ravener Hunter...but honestly it didn't bring a lot to the table and not getting solo tactics until 6th level really and truly sucks. I know some people swear on it but think about what you gain..martial weapon and heavy armor? You already have a composite longbow and your dex makes heavy armor obsolete.. weapon focus and improved crit are ok...but your to hit will be godly and getting a 19-20 crit doesn't sell me. Why would I skip it? Simple: Friendly fire maneuver at 3rd level..trust me nothing is worse then taking -4 to hit even after taking precise shot...this is mandatory for a archer and between 3rd level or 6...umm yeah. I took feather domain but I had a plan to have something get between me and a opponent...sadly I kill things too fast so I tend to "forget" the companion.
For other teamwork feats I went with coordinated shot and improved spell sharing but you don't need that one.
traits: Fate favored and reactionary...always better to go first. But then my first round tends to be cast divine favor and send the companion with the spell in to pounce...followed by arrows next round.
Feats: Rapid shot at level 5 sucks..and I mean that in a nice way...but still that is why I went human to get it by level 3...the longer it takes the more you are waiting. Deadly aim is worth it just for the damage and like I said accuracy isn't a huge problem. At level 8 I took the rogue combat feat and took many shot and then at 9 I got clustered shot...honestly I think the gm hated me after that. Oh at level 11 I took divine interference.
Spells: 1.Cure light..while not a healer it is always nice to have a emergency heal. Divine favor, heightened awareness (knowledge boost and init in a pinch) litany of sloth when in a pinch.
2. Bloodhound (Gold star this) Stricken heart, lesser restoration and resist energy...I went utility spells after that.
3. Heroism! Magic weapon greater! Resist energy communal! all are mandatory imo.
4. Invisibility greater (sneak attack with the bow) divine power!
Equipment: Way too much but stick with me.. armor: mithril agile breastplate with spell storing (stricken heart) Weapon: seeking composite bow..I would just do +1 and add what you need..magic weapon greater will pick up some of the slack. Lesser extend rod..honestly heroism right off the bat. a silver nocking point and swarmbane clasp are nice to have. I'm a fan of deliquescent gloves for +1d6 acid melee or range. I have 50 adamantine durable arrows, a ton of normal arrows and 50 pheromone arrows.
Total: So what am I looking at when I'm at level 11? To hit and not counting point blank or coordinated shot when someone is flanking...I'm at +24/+24/+19(4 arrows) each arrow does 1d8+21+2d6+1d6 acid. Animal companion is usually at +14/+14/+14 1d6+12 and 1d4+12 x2...not much usually lives after that. If I'm getting a full attack stricken heart brings it down to 1 attack and if it is a crit I give up a spell to make the gm reroll.
Ok, so since Friendly Fire Maneuvers and Enfilading Fire are both combat feats as well as teamwork, I can take either of them at level 8 using the Slayer Talent Combat Trick. Then I can just take the other one as the level 9 teamwork feat. Then move Ferocious Loyalty to level 12. That does mean I need to figure out 2 teamwork feats for level 15 and 18.
I don't see any offensive teamwork feats that would work for a half-orc archer that aren't already on the list. There are Target of Opportunity and Volley Fire, but those are only helpful if there are others in the party using ranged attacks. I'll note those down to take if that is the case when I actually play her, but for now I think I'll be better off taking a defensive teamwork feat at those two levels. Perhaps Lookout or Shake It Off.
Another possibility is using the Slayer Talent at level 8 to get a Ranger Style feat. It would have to be Far Shot since I'd already have all the others on the first list, but then take Point-Blank Master at level 16 as Avr suggests. Doing that would put Friendly Fire Maneuvers back to level 12, Ferocious Loyalty at 15, and whatever teamwork feat I choose at level 18.
And it looks like Archives did mark Point-Blank Master as a Ranger Combat Style feat. They just only did on the feat itself.
If I go with the second plan, I could also move Improve Precise Shot to level 11. With a starting Dex of 16 and putting the ability boost into it at either level 4 or 8, any item that gives a basic +2 gets it to 19 for the feat. Doing that would eliminate a need for Friendly Fire Maneuvers at all.
Assuming I go with the second plan and putting Improved Precise Shot at level 11, I can still put Friendly Fire as the level 15 teamwork feat. I can also move Impact Critical Shot up to level 13.
That plan would go like this:
1: Point-Blank Shot, Weapon Focus Longbow
3: Precise Shot, Demon Hunter
5: Rapid Shot
6: Coordinated Shot
7: Manyshot
8: Improved Critical Longbow, Far Shot
9: Clustered Shot, Enfilading Fire
11: Improved Precise Shot
12: Greater Weapon Focus, Ferocious Loyalty
13: Impact Critical Shot
15: Friendly Fire Maneuvers and undecided.
16: Point Blank Master
17: Undecided
18: Undecided, perhaps Target of Opportunity or Volley Fire.
19: Undecided
Improved precise shot takes BAB +11 unless you get it as a combat style feat. You couldn't get it until level 16 that way anyway, or until level 15 as a regular feat. Similarly manyshot has a +6 BAB prereq.
Because you're reliant on buffing you might get the lookout teamwork feat to make getting that more reliable, even at the cost of a regular feat. The one at level 7 perhaps? Or you could get deadly aim then. Like I said, manyshot isn't an option there.
I actually haven't moved Manyshot at all. Hm......
I'll figure something out.
Ok. So I moved Manyshot to level 9 and Clustered Shots to 11. Improved Precise Shot goes to level 15. There are still 3 feats that need to be filled at level 7, 17, and 19.
I can always go with the classics Dodge, Iron Will, and Armor Focus. That plan will end up like this:
1: Point-Blank Shot, Weapon Focus Longbow
3: Precise Shot, Demon Hunter
5: Rapid Shot
6: Coordinated Shot
7: Dodge
8: Improved Critical Longbow, Far Shot
9: Manyshot, Enfilading Fire
11: Clustered Shots
12: Greater Weapon Focus, Ferocious Loyalty
13: Impact Critical Shot
15: Improved Precise Shot, Friendly Fire Manuevers
16: Point-Blank Master
17: Iron Will
18: Shake It Off
19: Armor Focus
Attack bonuses at level 19 are likely to obscure the +1 from armor focus. Toughness might serve the same purpose better.
If you don't like lookout then improved initiative might be similarly useful in getting your buffs up fast. I've never liked trading a feat for just 1 AC. Or taking shield focus and unhindering shield at 17/19 (+7 AC at the endgame) and a feat of your choice at level 7 isn't terrible.
True. Maybe I'll put Iron Will at 7. But for now, I think I'm going to say that I'm done with my half-orc inquisitor. By the time I'd get to level 7 with her in a game, I'd know what the campaign is like and what she'd probably need to focus on.
I think I'm going to do my Cavalier next. I know more or less what I wanted to do with her, I just lost the paper that had the feats I was considering on it. Human, Emissary archetype, and Order of the Sword. One of my few Strength based characters.
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One of my few Strength based characters.
Why must you stray away from the light.
In any case,
LV1. Endurance, Heavy Armor Proficiency
LV3. Agile Maiden to remove the need for DEX higher than 12
and then Power Attack and defensive shit like Steadfast Personality, Iron Will, and good ol' Chain Challenge.
This being said who wants Emissary and Order of the Sword amirite.
I have 18 characters and only 5 of them are strength based. And three of them (which includes this one) need to be redone anyway. I think I'm still in the light just fine.
The archetype gives some good bonus feats and doesn't really lose too much. Tactician is handy but it is limited in how many times it can be used. And I like the order.
It's just that if you wanted to get rid of Tactician, you could go Gendarme for better effect and keep the Banner.
If you go Emissary, it doesn't make too much sense to go Order of the Sword as it's charging central – it's all about Spirited Charge and feats on that line.
As an Emissary, the Challenge bonus is not as attractive, as you are likely to get off the mount, and the 8th level Order power isn't useful as you already get all the Mounted feats you want as your focus is versatility, as contradictory as it sounds, and you don't want to overspend on mounted features.
The Cavalier "structures" can be divided as:
- Charger (something to just give up Tactician like Gendarme ideal, but Hussar is very good because it allows you to squeeze your mount through Medium-sized spaces, combined with an Order to boost charge damage like Order of the Sword)
- Skirmisher (Qadiran Horselord to get Spring Attack charge damage + Order of the Saddle for more of it)
- On/Off (Emissary for features that function in both stages + some Order with bonuses active both on and off the saddle, like Order of the Cockatrice)
- Animal Companion (an archetype that gives up the Charge features like Honor Guard, maybe combined with Beast Rider or one of the exotic animal feats + an Order that works well in this style of combat like Order of the Reins)
And then there's the mountless and ranged builds.
Since you wanna do On/Off, ostensibly, I think something else than Order of the Sword might be fun.
On/Off? I don't know what that means.
Emissaries get abilities that function whether they are riding their mount or not. If you pick Emissary, is because you want that flexibility.
If you just want to get rid of Tactician, there are better options.
I see. I was planning on a mounted build mostly.
I see. I was planning on a mounted build mostly.
I'd give a good hard look at other archetypes other than Emissary then,
- Hooded Knight for magical movement
- Gendarme for feats
- Hussar for using your mount in dungeons without a hitch.
- Knight of Arnisant for more defence.
- Saurian Champion for a big fat chunky boy
- Qadiran Horselord for skirmishing
Going Emissary you aren't quite gaining much.