Assuming the heroes cast Grease before the bad guy arrived on the scene.
Once the BBEG gets there, would it make any sense to give him a roll to spot the 'layer of slippery grease' on the floor?
Then on an additional note - would/should the BBEG be allowed some sort of roll (Int?) to realize that is a possibly slippery puddle? Thought about Spellcraft, but there isn't a magical effect anymore, just grease on the floor.
What do you guys think? Am I over-complicating? What DCs do you think would be applicable, if any?
Well, it's not an instantaneous spell so it is still a magical effect and should be treated as such. So, a spellcraft check would be appropriate to recognize that a grease spell is in effect.
As for the BBEG noticing it, it really depends if the PCs have made any effort to conceal the effect. If they have I would allow them to make a disguise check which would then be opposed by a perception check. Otherwise, given the level of the spell and the fact that there is nothing in the spell description that states that it's hard to see it's reasonable to assume that it isn't difficult to notice at all.
Now, depending on the set up if the BBEG barges into the room at full speed. They may not get a chance to spot it before coming into contact with it.
If he uses Detect Magic, it would instantly give it away. What caster level is the party casting Grease at? It is only a level 1 spell so the aura lasts 1d6 rounds after the spell finishes.
Spellcraft only calls out learning about a spell when being cast, nothing about the effect after. It'd be a rather easy perception check to notice the grease. It is a DC 15 to notice a hidden door, a 10ft area of grease should be easy to see.
Also the grease is still a magical effect, since it appears and disappears just as any other spell that creates items.
Even if the BBEG doesn't know what spell it is, I'd say he automatically makes the check to notice something is up unless his perception check is negative. I don't know of anyone that would walk into a puddle of grease, magical or not, just because.
If there were a DC to notice the grease, it'd probably be equal to the DC of the spell.
After double checking, knowledge arcana is the skill used to identify spell effects that are already in place not spellcraft. So, unless the BBEG has ranks in knowledge arcana (or some ability that lets them make knowledge checks untrained) at most they will just see a magical puddle on the floor and may or may not have any sense of what it will do if they touch it.
I always assumed that under normal conditions Grease is clearly visible, just as easy to notice as any difficult terrain. The argument is that it is conjuration spell not transmutation spell, so it doesn't just changes the property of floor making it slippery, but it actualy creates a layer of grease as per spell description. Someone simply walking should have no trouble noticing it.
In combat a Perception check may be in place. I'd set the base DC low, no more than DC 5, but some modifiers may apply if a charater is distracted (DC +5), or in the conditions of poor visibility (for example dim light, DC +2). In darkness it can be impossible to notice, unless it has smell, which is not defined.
Grease is definitely magical; the spells with a duration (like Grease) emanate magic aura for the full duration. This aura can be noticed using Detect Magic and analyzed using Knowledge (arcana). But it's only to understand that the grease was created by magic and how. To recognize it as a slippery grease, common sense is enough.
It's not like most dungeons are pristine, well lit places. A wet looking puddle wouldn't be out of place in most adventure settings. So, just because the bad guy can see the grease, doesn't mean he knows what it is or that it's out of the ordinary.
Also, "grease" is pretty vague. It could be any color, even clear, so possibly very hard to spot.
For real world examples, check Google for a "buttered floor prank". Afterall, the material component of Grease is butter.
At the very least I'd give them a perception check or spellcraft/knowledge arcana check to see and identify the hazard.
Not sure exactly how I'd set the DC. Probably equal to the save, maybe with a penalty for being distracted in combat.
At the very least the BBEG should have a chance to recognize its there, even if they're unlikely to succeed.
Thanks for the input people - on the one hand it feels kinda strange that, unless you have magical knowledge (Knowledge - Arcana seems to be the most logical one, vs Spellcraft), you aren't able to ponder the danger of a slippery layer of grease on the floor...
However, it IS a magical effect so... It may make sense to use the Kn (Arcana) after all. Still not sure on DCs for this.
Thanks for the input people - on the one hand it feels kinda strange that, unless you have magical knowledge (Knowledge - Arcana seems to be the most logical one, vs Spellcraft), you aren't able to ponder the danger of a slippery layer of grease on the floor...
However, it IS a magical effect so... It may make sense to use the Kn (Arcana) after all. Still not sure on DCs for this.
f you're able to tell that the floor is covered with grease, you know the danger - you don't need Knowledge (arcana) for that. It is only required if you want to examine its magic aura to learn what kind of spell created it.
If you know there’s grease then you know there’s grease. But how do you know there is grease? That’s the question.
A better question may be, “what do you think grease looks like?” If it’s like a buttered floor then it may not look like anything. And remember that the material component is butter, so there’s a good chance the grease is butter-like.
Thanks for the input people - on the one hand it feels kinda strange that, unless you have magical knowledge (Knowledge - Arcana seems to be the most logical one, vs Spellcraft), you aren't able to ponder the danger of a slippery layer of grease on the floor...
However, it IS a magical effect so... It may make sense to use the Kn (Arcana) after all. Still not sure on DCs for this.
well, think of it this way. You see a strange puddle on the floor. It could be
a puddle of melted butter
a Grease spell
a Glue Seal spell
a Silent Image spell
or even a stun jelly
unless you have knowledge arcana you don't know what exactly it is or what it will do to you if you step in it. But you do know that you're probably better off avoiding it.
well, think of it this way. You see a strange puddle on the floor. It could bea puddle of melted butter
a Grease spell
a Glue Seal spell
a Silent Image spell
or even a stun jellyunless you have knowledge arcana you don't know what exactly it is or what it will do to you if you step in it. But you do know that you're probably better off avoiding it.
Or maybe you just have a leaky roof.
How spottable is a puddle of grease? Go spill some grease on the floor and look at it, then assign a Perception DC based on comparisons to other known Perception DCs for things that are similarly detectable. If the bad guy makes the Perception check, they spot the grease. They don't know it's a grease spell, but they sure as scimitars know that something in that location looks like grease.
If you're having trouble deciding on a Perception DC based on the fact that some greases in real life are easier to detect than others due to color, translucency, the color of the surface being greased, and so on, I have great news for you--since the spell description doesn't say, the GM gets to decide that. : )
How spottable is a puddle of grease? Go spill some grease on the floor and look at it, then assign a Perception DC based on comparisons to other known Perception DCs for things that are similarly detectable. If the bad guy makes the Perception check, they spot the grease. They don't know it's a grease spell, but they sure as scimitars know that something in that location looks like grease.
If you're having trouble deciding on a Perception DC based on the fact that some greases in real life are easier to detect than others due to color, translucency, the color of the surface being greased, and so on, I have great news for you--since the spell description doesn't say, the GM gets to decide that. : )
Also, keep in mind that our modern floors are much more uniform and bright than the average fantasy location you are likely to be in. And if the floor were wooden then the grease may just match the varnish.