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One of my biggest criticisms about PF2e (and I had this criticism before the rules were even published because I could see the direction Paizo were headed) was the DC by level table and the lack of guidelines on proper adjudication of challenges. People have also commented that Paizo's adventure also uses this table with little to no change in context for the narrative of the game (I haven't read the adventures myself so I can't say for sure how accurate that criticism is).
Looking at the guidelines for what should be an "easy" challenge and a "hard" challenge we have the following guidelines from Paizo:
An easy DC represents a minor speed bump for a group of the indicated level. The DC is so low that even the least skilled character of that level with a low score for the associated ability has around a 50% chance to succeed. These are good DCs for when a task is going to be rote for the more skilled members of the party. You can usually skip rolling and assume the characters succeed against easy DCs unless it’s necessary for everybody to try the check.
A hard skill DC, the most common in the game, represents something that an average commoner might not try but that adventurers attempt frequently. This DC challenges even characters who have strongly focused on the skill and can often be overcome by a character who has increased their modifier or proficiency rank. A character who’s really strong in the skill starts at around a 50% chance of succeeding but ends up almost certain to succeed at higher levels.
An ultimate skill DC is reserved for only the greatest of impediments. It’s so hard that even the best possible character succeeds only about half the time, though assistance from allies can improve this chance. Characters with less training have a far lower chance of success, and will critically fail much of the time. You should avoid using ultimate DCs if a failed check results in death, massive harm, or other dire consequences.
So looking at this through the lens of Pathfinder 1st edition I would say that someone who is "strongly focused" in a skill will have max ranks in the skill and it will either be a class skill or they'll have a high ability score bonus in the relevant ability score. Someone who is "the best of the best" will have it as a class skill, have a high ability score in the relevant ability and will have max ranks.
So looking at what a "hard" DC for a level 1 character would be in PF1e I'd say about DC 15. This matches up with the Update 1.6 DC table. In Pathfinder 1e I believe a hard DC increases by +1 per level, making a level 15 high DC 29.
An Ultimate DC for a level 1 character would take close to max ability score (+4 starting), a class skill and max ranks with it still then being a 50/50 chance of success. So at level 1 an Ultimate DC would be DC 19 while at level 15 it would be DC 37.
So with those sort of parameters in mind, I've converted a bunch of PF1e DCs into PF2e playtest DCs.
For anyone looking to convert other PF1e DCs the following logic is what I use:
DC 4 or less = Not worth assigning a DC.
DC 5 = Level 0 Trivial check (DC 7)
DC 10 = Level 1 Trivial check (DC 8)
DC 15 = Level 1 Hard check (DC 15)
DC 20 = Level 6 Hard check (DC 21)
DC 25 = Level 11 Hard check (DC 28)
DC 30 = Level 16 Hard check (DC 34)
DC 35 = Level 21 Hard check (DC 41)
+2/-2 modifier = +1/-1 level
+5/-5 modifier = +3/-3 level
+8/-8 modifier = +5/- level
+10/-10 modifier = +7/-7 level
You could do +1 modifier = +1 level. But I personally don't think that's how PF1e works which is why the I've not translated the modifiers for a straight bonus-to-level ratio.
Another way to convert DCs from PF1e to PF2e are:
PF1e DC....PF2e DC
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DC 1-10 = PF1e DC-3
DC 11-20 = PF1e DC+0
DC 21-30 = PF1e DC+3
DC 31+ = PF1e DC+6
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In what way would I see how it worked out?
Out of interest I started to read through Doomsday Dawn with the errata in hand. Most of the DCs I read have no justification for how they're determined. They all might as well be arbitrary (and quite possibly are). E.g. Moving in wilderness should be DC 15. In part 2 it's DC 17 with no explanation as to why. There's also a level 4 cliff face in part 2. Amazing that it wouldn't be a level 1 cliff or a level 6 cliff. It is exactly level 4. I stopped reading at that point.
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In what way would I see how it worked out?
Out of interest I started to read through Doomsday Dawn with the errata in hand. Most of the DCs I read have no justification for how they're determined. They all might as well be arbitrary (and quite possibly are). E.g. Moving in wilderness should be DC 15. In part 2 it's DC 17 with no explanation as to why. There's also a level 4 cliff face in part 2. Amazing that it wouldn't be a level 1 cliff or a level 6 cliff. It is exactly level 4. I stopped reading at that point.
They've specifically said that Doomsday Dawn uses almost exclusively on-level DCs to see how those work. They've also said this will very much not be the case with later adventures or the game as a whole, it was just a testing tool.
Hopefully that's correct, though I admit to being concerned that writers won't get that memo.
I'll also note that the need for more examples of actions at various levels and DCs is a known problem to the people at Paizo, since I mentioned it in my 'post 1.6 issues' thread, and Mark Seifter immediately responded that all issues I brought up were either already on the list or would be put there.
I guess you could see if the DC's you ended up with after converting seemed fair and level/task appropriate or if the conversion seemed to have some flaws in some aspects. But it could be difficult to gauge that without playing through it I suppose.
I've had a quick spot check of Carrion Crown (can't believe it's been 5 years since I finished that campaign). Keeping in mind some of the DCs were virtually impossible when I ran it, I checked the DCs on a per adventure basis and I think a more accurate conversion would be the following:
DC 15 = DC 15DC 20 = DC 18
DC 25 = DC 22
DC 30 = DC 27
DC 35 = DC 30
DC 40 = DC 36
This is a "close enough is good enough" conversion. It's not 100% accurate but you're not going to get a straight conversion given how different the math is between PF1e vs PF2e. If you want a quick and dirty conversion and don't mind erring on the side of the PCs then subtract 3 from the PF1e DC will do the trick.
They've specifically said that Doomsday Dawn uses almost exclusively on-level DCs to see how those work. They've also said this will very much not be the case with later adventures or the game as a whole, it was just a testing tool.Hopefully that's correct, though I admit to being concerned that writers won't get that memo.
I'll also note that the need for more examples of actions at various levels and DCs is a known problem to the people at Paizo, since I mentioned it in my 'post 1.6 issues' thread, and Mark Seifter immediately responded that all issues I brought up were either already on the list or would be put there.
Yeah. But they also said they knew the dangers of Table 10-2 and had taken all that into account. Then we got the playtest. So while I hope they'll do what we want, I'll not be holding my breath.
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If I'm to list a single flaw that could potentially ruin PF2, Table 10-2 is that flaw.
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I think table 10-2 helps a lot and is quite useful most of the times.
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It's sorta both.
It's certainly useful, but requires both a much more strongly worded statement that the Level is the Level of the task rather than that of the PC attempting it, and a vastly more extensive list of examples of what tasks are what Level in order to not warp the game in deeply unfortunate ways. It also requires that adventure and supplement writers read both the statement and list of examples in question.
Now, I'm still quite hopeful Paizo will insert the necessary stuff to make it useful without causing huge problems, but being worried they won't is quite understandable.
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It's sorta both.
It's certainly useful, but requires both a much more strongly worded statement that the Level is the Level of the task rather than that of the PC attempting it, and a vastly more extensive list of examples of what tasks are what Level in order to not warp the game in deeply unfortunate ways. It also requires that adventure and supplement writers read both the statement and list of examples in question.
Now, I'm still quite hopeful Paizo will insert the necessary stuff to make it useful without causing huge problems, but being worried they won't is quite understandable.
Agreed always having to eyeball it is hard without an example, one of my players asked to destroy a crude wooden tower with atletics by pushing it... I would equate that to an hard level 10 task. But i had no idea if that was too high or too low xD