Why are alchemist bombs (su)?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Aren't they basically just flasks of reactive chemicals?


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It's the annoying line "infusing them with their magical reserves". I think they should be Ex instead, but I suppose the designers wanted to leave Alchemists as helpless as regular casters in an antimagic field since even melee alchemists lose most of their combat abilities with mutagen also being an Su.


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There's a justification along the lines of the alchemist needing to infuse each of their extracts and bombs with their own magic. I think that was put in because alchemists were given per-day abilities rather than a limit consistent with their supply of flasks of reactive chemicals.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's there because of the thematic justification for why bombs are usable X times per day and can't be thrown by party members.


Alchemist bombs are a lot more than just simply chemical reactions. The damage the bomb does is based on the level of the alchemist. If the alchemist gains negative levels the amount of damage the bomb does is reduced even though the bombs were all prepared at the same time. So a 10th level Alchemist throws a bomb at a target for 5d6+ damage. He hit by a couple of undead and gains 4 negative levels. When he throw a bomb it now does3d6+ damage even though it has the same chemical properties as the bomb he just threw for 5d6+ damage. If it were simply a chemical reaction it would not matter what his level was it would always do the same damage.


^Now that you mention it, it would make sense for an Alchemist's Bombs, Extracts, and Mutagens (Supernatural or otherwise) to have their effective level set by the condition the Alchemist was in at the time of making them (since they are all canned rather than stored in the head). Although this would be noticeably more bookkeeping, which is probably why it wasn't implemented.


An alchemist’s class abilities are not potions and are actually activated just before they are used, not when they are prepared. This is no different than a spell or ability from another class. This is why the alchemist is able to choose what the final form will be when the ability is activated instead of when it is prepared. If they were actually canned an alchemist would need to make those decisions when the ability was prepared. For example they would need to choose what stat a mutagen boosts when they prepared it in the morning instead of when they activate it


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Because alchemy is not chemistry. Chemistry lets you make a baking soda volcano. Alchemy lets you use the same materials as chemistry, plus magic, to make a baking soda volcano that can kill a bear at 20 feet.


Both extracts and mutagen effects are chosen when they are prepared. Bombs are made "instantaneously" in battle and their effects are chosen in the moment.

Relevant text from class abilities:
Alchemy-"When an alchemist mixes an extract, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the extract with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. An extract immediately becomes inert if it leaves the alchemist’s possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an alchemist cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use (but see the “infusion” discovery below). An extract, once created, remains potent for 1 day before losing its magic, so an alchemist must re-prepare his extracts every day. Mixing an extract takes 1 minute of work—most alchemists prepare many extracts at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it’s not uncommon for an alchemist to keep some (or even all) of his daily extract slots open so that he can prepare extracts in the field as needed."

Mutagen-"It takes 1 hour to brew a dose of mutagen, and once brewed, it remains potent until used. An alchemist can only maintain one dose of mutagen at a time—if he brews a second dose, any existing mutagen becomes inert. As with an extract or bomb, a mutagen that is not in an alchemist’s possession becomes inert until an alchemist picks it up again.

When an alchemist brews a mutagen, he selects one physical ability score—either Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution."

Bomb-"In addition to magical extracts, alchemists are adept at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals and infusing them with their magical reserves to create powerful bombs that they can hurl at their enemies...Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. In order to create a bomb, the alchemist must use a small vial containing an ounce of liquid catalyst—the alchemist can create this liquid catalyst from small amounts of chemicals from an alchemy lab, and these supplies can be readily refilled in the same manner as a spellcaster’s component pouch. Most alchemists create a number of catalyst vials at the start of the day equal to the total number of bombs they can create in that day—once created, a catalyst vial remains usable by the alchemist for years.

Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity..."

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Whilst I agree with you about the mutagen, the passage you have quoted makes no claim that decisions about individual extracts have to be made when they are mixed rather than consumed.


While I think that whole section makes it clear, the specific line that leaves no doubt is the last sentence about keeping extract slots open. If you did not have to decide what the extract was when you created it there would be no need to leave open extract slots for emergency mixing.


The FAQ wrote:

Alchemist, Choices When "Casting": If I makes an extract of a multiple-choice spell (such as protection from energy), do I make that choice when I create the extract, or when I drink it?

You make the choice when you drink it.

As for bombs ... They're barely "bombs" in the traditional sense. More supernaturally souped-up alchemist fires than actual explosives. Magic is what makes them stronger - and weirder - hence the (su).

If you want (ex) bombs, look at the Gunpowder Bombardier ninja, for example. Although the ki depedency is a bit weird for a non-supernatural explosion in and of itself, it's in line with their smoke bombs.
Or just craft some gunpowder and grenades.


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Because they're magical, and magical non-spell things tend to be classified as supernatural abilities.


Because if they weren't magical then it wouldn't make sense to limit them to X uses per day. Then Alchemists could stockpile bombs and who knows how this underwhelming fact could destabilize the multiverse.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jagael wrote:
While I think that whole section makes it clear, the specific line that leaves no doubt is the last sentence about keeping extract slots open. If you did not have to decide what the extract was when you created it there would be no need to leave open extract slots for emergency mixing.

Not really. Leave a couple of slots open, just in case you need to climb a cliff (spiderclimb) or spend a long period under water (waterbreathing) unexpectedly...


I think maybe we misunderstood each other in the beginning, because you just agreed with me there.

Either way, we should probably move this discussion elsewhere so as not to derail the thread from the original topic.

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