Need Help with Spell Research Problem

[SageofMaple]

So I'm a DM in a campaign. I have an arcanist player whose whole concept is a fire mage and they have asked if they can do spell research to create custom spells. I agreed on the condition that I must give the green light for any spell they want to make. They so far have not abused this to make a million new spells and I doubt they will, so no worries there.

For this particular query, the player wants to create Greater Burning Hands at spell level 2. After looking into it, I felt as though the only way to balance it would be to make it a level 3 spell.

Their reasoning is that it functions like giving Intensify spell but only to 1 spell on their list, which is less expensive than a Lesser Wand of Intensify Spell for this specific purpose.

In short, we're an an impasse. They want a "good" second level aoe damage spell, as they are convinced none exist. I have been trying to come up with something that works at the power level of a second level spell.

I need ideas because so far all of my offers have been shot down in seconds.

[Lelomenia]

Burning Arc is really good. Intensified Burning Hands is kind of the definition of appropriate power level for 2nd level AoE spell.

[Weables]

in my personal opinion (opinion only) spell research is there to research new spells. intensified burning hands already exists. there are already paths to this spell, so the player should take these paths, and pick up the feat or item that itd take to get them. if they want to design a whole new spell that isnt burning arc or just a metamagic'd old spell, thats what spell research is for.

This to me seems you two arent on the same page about what you think spell research is for in the first place, and you should probably have a conversation about that to get onto the same page before anything else.

[avr]

There are some spells which look as though they were created by adding a metamagic feat to an existing spell, and maybe tinkered with a little after that. Fireball + selective spell ~ controlled fireball. Scorching ray + merciful spell ~ admonishing ray.

Is your problem with making spells like this that it doesn't seem inventive enough, or that it is in some way overpowered?

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Here are some ideas from previous editions, mostly updated to PF1. A couple damage spells, a couple control spells.

Circle of Flame
(Evocation) [fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Casting Time: 1 action
Components: V, S, M
Range: personal
Duration: 1 round/level
Effect: circle of fire centered on you, 5' to 20' high
Saving throw: none
Spell resistance: yes

You create a stationary ring of fire around you that deals 1d6 points of damage per round to all creatures adjacent to you, and 2d6 points of fire damage to any creature reaching through, such as making melee attacks without reach weapons. You never take damage from your own circle.
Material Components: a piece of flint and some ash

DARSSON'S FIERY CUBE
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 10-ft. cube
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

You deal 1d4/level (max 10d4) points of fire damage to all creatures and objects in the area.

Flashpuff
(Evocation) [light]
Level: Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 2
Casting Time: 1 action
Components: S, M
Range: medium
Duration: 1 round/level
Effect: 5' radius cloud
Saving throw: Reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes

You toss some powder into a fire and cause a bright flash of light and thick smoke to billow from it. ll creatures within 5' of the fire must make a Reflex save or be blinded for 1d4 rounds and the area fills with smoke that functions similarly to Obscuring Mist.
Material Components: a pinch of sulphur

Morning Glory
(Evocation) [fire]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Casting Time: 1 action
Components: V, S, M
Range: 0
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: 50' cone
Saving throw: Reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes

You create a shower of sparks that deal no direct damage to creatures but get stuck in clothes and crevices, dealing 1d3 point/level of damage and setting them on fire Reflex negates, a creature need make only a single save for all worn, held or attended objects. The spell ignores non-magical hardness on flammable objects.
Material Components: a handful of iron filings

Sundazzle
(Evocation) [light]
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Casting Time: 1 action
Components: V, S, M
Range: personal touch close medium long
Duration: Instantaneous
Effect: up to 1 target/level in a 15' radius
Saving throw: Reflex negates
Spell resistance: yes

This spell can only be cast in daylight or effects that mimic it. On a failed save targets are blinded for 2d4 rounds.
Material Components: a small blob of sweet gum

[blahpers]

SageofMaple wrote:

So I'm a DM in a campaign. I have an arcanist player whose whole concept is a fire mage and they have asked if they can do spell research to create custom spells. I agreed on the condition that I must give the green light for any spell they want to make. They so far have not abused this to make a million new spells and I doubt they will, so no worries there.

For this particular query, the player wants to create Greater Burning Hands at spell level 2. After looking into it, I felt as though the only way to balance it would be to make it a level 3 spell.

Their reasoning is that it functions like giving Intensify spell but only to 1 spell on their list, which is less expensive than a Lesser Wand of Intensify Spell for this specific purpose.

In short, we're an an impasse. They want a "good" second level aoe damage spell, as they are convinced none exist. I have been trying to come up with something that works at the power level of a second level spell.

I need ideas because so far all of my offers have been shot down in seconds.

You've stated their rationale for making it a 2nd level spell. What's your rationale for making it a 3rd level spell?

As for them shooting down your offers, that's fine. You're the last word on this subject; if they don't like the answer, they'll just have to move on to something else.

I'll second Weables's advice.