hi Fellow pathfinders
I am building a new character for upcoming return of the runelords campaign and looking for some advise
Here is the detail
20 point build
Role: ARCANE spellcaster.
I don’t just want to be just another spell hurling blaster that relies on freballs, magic missiles and god complexes.. that’s been done to death in our group over the years, I want more of a subtle character .. somebody who uses illusion, protection and some offence.
The idea is to keep those super powers in reserve so the group goes “where the **** did that come from?”
I’ve read all the guides I can find but I’m torn between sorcerer, magus, wizard and Arcanist.
Having never playing an arcane caster before I’m looking for some advice on those 4 and pros and cons, and maybe some feat suggestions.
Thanks
good dex. unseen servent and heavy crosbow.
unseen reload (he get a full round action to use in your turn and last 1 hour per level) you shoot each round for a 1d10 ranged attack with really long range. true strike before a hard to hit target (remmber it's also remove concealment penalty).
for funsizes take arcanaist (or the exploit wizzrd archtype) and have the short range teleport exploit for when you need to get to the right place (i like poping UP on trees to shoot from a hard to reach position).
Thanks guys... decided on an exploiter wizard, and I’ll post the build below to get thoughts
Race: Catfolk
Str 10, dex 15, con 12, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 10
Level 1
Arcane exploite: quick study
Feats: cypher magic ( I want to be able to use a lot of scrolls and this fits with the cyphermage group from adventurers guide - but waiting on GM approval) otherwise it will be improved initiative, it did consider toughness too.
Traits;: reactionary and self taught scholar
Spells:
0 - daze, disrupt undead, detect magic,
1 - colour spray and Mage Armor
No weapons - chose cats claws as a alternative racial trait
Level 3 feat - dazing metamagic spell
After that I haven’t thought about it
Anything to change.
Level 3 feat - dazing metamagic spell
After that I haven’t thought about itAnything to change.
You won't be able to use Dazing until you get 4th level spells...or 7th level at the absolute earliest. If your GM is cool with the retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign you can take a different feat you can use and retrain it to Dazing later if you want.
Instead think about feats you'll get a benefit from now, or need to make prerequisites later. One thing to consider is what school of spells you generally like the most. If you can plan on taking spells from a single school for several levels (enchantment, illusion, transmutation are all great schools) you can take Spell Focus (and Greater Spell Focus) to up the DC. Spell Specialization will add 2 levels to your favorite spell of the school, and you can change which spell you specialize in every even levels.
Some spell chains to consider:
Enchantment: sleep(1st), Hideous Laughter(2nd), Heroism(3rd), Confusion(4th)
Illusion: Color Spray(1st), Mirror Image(2nd), Displacement(3rd), Phantasmal Killer(4th), Greater Invisibility(4th)
Transmutation: Enlarge Person(1st), Bull Strength(2nd), Haste(3rd), Slow (3rd), Calcific Touch(4th)
Illusion is what my first choice was. I saw a post about using silent image to create obscuring mist and loved the idea of using illusion to recreate other spells
"No weapons - chose cats claws as a alternative racial trait"
if your a catfolk with the claw trait, your proficient with this it is masterwork by default.
I wrote this yesterday but didn’t have the time to post it. Even though you’ve decided on the exploiter wizard I’ll share this anyway and maybe it’ll help someone else in the future:
The problem I have with guides is that they can be a bit narrow minded; they can often contradict other guides as well as actual player experiences. There's also the issue that they don't get updated so if you were to follow them you'd miss out on new and interesting class options.
Comparing just the spell casting:
The Sorcerer has spontaneous casting which can make it easier to keep track of your spells but lacks flexibility and you gain spells at a slower rate than the wizard. It's great if you want to spam the same limited range spells e.g. fireball, magic missile etc. but I think with what you're going for you want flexibility. Being able to spontaneously apply metamagic is helpful. The key ability for a standard sorcerer is Charisma which is beneficial if you want to be the face (or life) of the party
The Magus is a level 6 spell caster. It's a perfectly fine class but personally I'd skip it for now and go for the full arcane experience.
The Wizard is a prepared caster that has good flexibility; they can change and learn new spells more easily than the sorcerer and have faster spell progression. This is a good option for exploring and trying out a wide variety of spells but you get fewer spells per day than the sorcerer. The key ability for the wizard is Intelligence, this means skill points and you'll be great at all the knowledges.
The Arcanist combines the strengths and weaknesses of both the wizard and sorcerer allowing you to cast spells spontaneously but also easily change them. The rate of gaining new spell levels is the same as the sorcerer and you can either spontaneously apply metamagics on the fly or prepare them in advance. Arcanists use Intelligence for their spell casting but Charisma for a number of class abilities, you get to be good in the knowledge department without being socially inept.
Class abilities:
I can't say much about the myriad of Sorcerer bloodlines. The arcane bloodline is good if you like metamagics and a familiar, the fey bloodline gives a bones to compulsion enchantment spells (e.g. Suggestion); I most like the look of the astral bloodline with the force damage/minor debuff Astral Warp, the free once per day quicken spell with Peerless Speed, and the rp opportunities of Astral Voyager.
Wizard gets some nice perks with the arcane bond item/familiar and bonus feats. They get access to Arcane Discoveries which presents them with some really useful options such as Opposition Research and Resilient Illusions. School specialisations are what we’re really here for and when I think ‘subtle magics’ three schools spring to mind: divination, enchantment and illusion. Divination offers one of the most powerful school powers in the form of Forewarned which allows you to add half your wizard level to your initiative and always act in a surprise round; of the divination subschools I’d rate Foresight the highest. Specialising in divination will help you make better, more informed decisions. I don’t have much to say about the enchantment school powers but if you want a wizard that manipulates and controls others you probably want this. The illusion fits with your desire for an illusion focus and the base school powers look pretty solid. The shadow subschool offers some mobility and Binding Darkness would work well with party that has darkvision; Phantasm looks quite nice with Terror allowing cause an enemy to provoke attacks of opportunity but Bedevilling Aura is really nice as it prevents enemies form making attacks of opportunity, halves their movement and they’re all considered flanked, it is however an mind-affecting effect and lots of creatures are immune to those.
The Arcanist’s arcane reservoir and exploits exploits grant them a wide variety of options and flexibility. A cut/paste of a post I wrote a number of years back:
“I particularly like the Quick Study exploit as you can prepare spells for combat/emergency situations and easily switch out to utility spells as and when they are needed (doesn't matter how many spells per day you can cast if you don't have enough of the right spell prepared). Spell Potency is another good exploit as it enables you to increase the DC or caster level of a spell by two, so it's kind of like taking Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus or Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration for caster level checks and it's nice to add a couple more d6s to that fireball. Then there's Metamixing to spontaneously cast metamagics and Greater Metamagic Knowledge which gives you a bonus metamagic that you can change each time to prepare spells.”
If you like the look of the arcanist but wish you could take a sorcerer bloodline then you can take the Blood Arcanist archetype which grants you the bloodline Arcanum and powers of your chosen bloodline. Similarly if you want the school powers of a wizard you can take the School Savant archetype; while you do have to pick two opposition schools the arcanist can take the Arcane Discovery exploit to gain Opposition Research.
Regarding feats it’s difficult to make suggestions without knowing more about who you want your character to be and what the part composition will look like. What I can say is that as a caster you want high initiative and this makes Improved Initiative a strong choice of feat regardless of what you play as. If playing a charisma based sorcerer you might want to consider the Noble Scion of War feat which lets you use you charisma in place of dexterity to make initiative checks. A familiar such as the greensting scorpion can grant a +4 bonus to initiative and three classes have a means to get one. There are a number of different traits (such as Reactionary) that grant a +2 bonus to initiative. The ifrit can take the Wildfire Hear alterative race trait for +4 initiative. There’s also the aforementioned Forewarned Divination school power which is available to the wizard and school savant arcanist. Finally is you’re going for subtle magic you’ll probably want to take a look at the Conceal Spell feat.
I wanted the character to be not just a blaster but a sage sort, something akin to elminster .. just because he can blast the world to smithereens doesn’t mean he should.
I was interested in the illusion path to give the melee characters the advantage in battle
Pits, illusionary walls etc.
His background is that he was charged by the cryptomages to find out as much about the runelords as possible, discover their secrets so that they can protect the world at large from destructive magic...
I’ll be spending a lot of downtime creating scrolls and maybe a few wands.
I had ideas of spells that simulate real spells eg lightning bolts and others that inflict non leathal damage... however if those don’t work then to follow them up with the real versions, if that’s even possible with illusion spells - I need to do some more research into the effects of illusion
I have also been looking at the shadow magic, but not sure yet.
Other Exploits I was considering were Dimensional slide, barriers, acid darts and the like.
Exploiter wizard is certainly a good choice; the exploits could show his sophisticated understanding of the inner workings of magic. Though when I think arcane sage-researcher my go to would be a School Savant diviner arcanist; combining the aforementioned exploits with the sage-researcher theme of divination and you get the marvellous school powers too. Either way you may want to up your charisma a little for using certain exploits.
I'm not sure illusion spells will do quite what you want regarding imitating other spells and inflicting non-lethal damage. If you want to deal non-lethal you could check out the merciful spell metamagic. You might want to talk to you GM to find out how they interpret and rule on illusions; some GMs can be excessively strict/rule in such a way that makes many illusion spells near useless/likely to fail, and other can be more permissive e.g. my GM allowed my witch to use Complex Hallucination to trick enemies to to believing they were being attacked by shadow monsters and thus qualified as being flanked.
Finally, if you want to be the knowledgeable sage who aids his allies you'll probably like the Linked Legacy spell.
Yeah I am starting to think illusion is the wrong path, I’ll start having a look at abjuration instead.
I really liked the idea of illusion, but may not so good as a first time wizard class
Feats I had planned
Spell penetration
Greater spell penetration
Spell focus (abjration (now was illusion)
Greater spell ficus
Maximized spell
Dazing spell
I am hoping this will go to about 16th level
There is also a feat,but I can’t remember it’s name, which allows you a skill point and hit point at each level
Are there that many Abjuration spells that require Saves to justify Spell Focus and Greater Spell focus? I always think of abjuration as mostly buffs and those don't usually have saves.
Can you explain metamixing?
So have changed a few things
Cha to 15
1 potent magic, extra arcane reservoir
3 spell focus (abjuration)
5 quick study, cypher magic
7 metamagic feat
9 dimensional slide
so based on all the feedback I got... I have this:
Level 1 - Potent Magic and Extra Resevoir
Level 3 - Extra Exploit - I did end up taking lightning lance (I was in game and couldnt remember what I was SUPPOSED to take!)
Level 5 Improved Initative, Quick Study Exploit
Level 7 Cypher Magic
Level 9 Spell Penetration, Metamagic Knowledge exploit
Level 11 Quicken Spell
Level 13 Greater Spell Penetration, Metamixing exploit
Level 15 Intensified Spell,
Level 17 Heighten Spell.
Sorry its taken a while to post - been moving house!
Thanks
Thanks I will retrain it out, its handy at the moment as we are only 3rd level, gives me a bit more usefulness after my other spells are out without resorting to "go Team" moral support.
I'm still looking through spells at higher levels - one of my friends keeps harping on about create pit... but its been done to death in our games and everybody now groans every time its cast.. .so I am avoiding it.
Memorised
1/ mage armor, magic missile, burning disarm
2/ Mirror Image and Scorching Ray
I am thinking that next level I will probably dump burning disarm for a protection from evil, and add more buffs into 2nd level
3rd level will be all offensive (fireball, lightning bolts etc)
Loving the extra levels on the potent magic and I may end up dropping one of those feats for more reservoir.