So I'll be GMing my game table come September (when our local store reopens after their reno, and the second Doomsday Dawn parth is out just in case we breeze through the first). The first thing I do with a book is make a character so I have a general idea of how the system works. I have a few main characters I tend to remake in new systems as a "how close can I get them to the concept" kind of things.
In this process, I went with my favorite rogue's daughter, also a rogue, and invested in Int as both an Elf, and just cause it's how the character works. Ignoring the buikd though, I hit a snag. 1 have 12 trained skills to choose in a system with 17 skills, and of those only 10 are signature skills, 11 considering Lore.
Now from what I've seen you can only really max 3 skills anyway, but this raised a question as I continued on how Lore works. I figured none of the spells-identifying skills were of interest, and the character is a noble city rat so survival don't fit. Best option seemed to be training in more Lores. I then got to the general feats chapter in search of my rogue skill feat and found Additional Lore.
PRB pg. 162
"The breadth of your knowledge has increased to encompass a new field. Choose an additional Lore skill subcategory. You become trained in it and it counts as a signature skill. At 3rd, 5th, and 13th levels, you gain an additional skill increase you can apply only to Lore. When you select this feat, you gain the skill increases immediately for all listed levels at or below your current level.
Special You can select this feat more than once, choosing a new subcategory of Lore each time and gaining the listed skill increases to that Lore."
So to my knowledge, at least how it worked in PF1 and SF, specific rules trump general. Feats were generally annointed with the line "Normal:" for how things work without the feat. So the questions:
Can you train in additional Lore subtypes at all, or do you need Additional Lore?
Are all Lores Signature Skills, or do you require Additional Lore for them to be?
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All Lore subskills are signature skills, except Bardic Lore which specifically calls out a special condition to reach master.
Additional Lore does something else, you get your new Lore subset, but in addition, you get extra skill level ups that you can use to raise ONLY Lore skills to Master or Legendary.
This means that you can basically raise a Lore skill to legendary for a feat, and you can use your other skill level ups to raise something that isn't Lore to legendary.
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Additional Lore does something else, you get your new Lore subset, but in addition, you get extra skill level ups that you can use to raise ONLY Lore skills to Master or Legendary.
This means that you can basically raise a Lore skill to legendary for a feat, and you can use your other skill level ups to raise something that isn't Lore to legendary.
Can you apply the skill increases to whatever Lore you choose and not just the new lore gained from this feat? The "Special" section suggests it is only applied to the new lore gained, which imo would be lame.
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Can you apply the skill increases to whatever Lore you choose and not just the new lore gained from this feat? The "Special" section suggests it is only applied to the new lore gained, which imo would be lame.Additional Lore does something else, you get your new Lore subset, but in addition, you get extra skill level ups that you can use to raise ONLY Lore skills to Master or Legendary.
This means that you can basically raise a Lore skill to legendary for a feat, and you can use your other skill level ups to raise something that isn't Lore to legendary.
Bump
As currently written, it is missing the word "that" in the main description but includes the word "that" in the special subheader for taking it more than once. So by the most rules lawyery possible reading, the skill increases from Additional Lore can be applied to any Lore, not just the one chosen for the feat. But if you take it more than once, the skill increases from the subsequent iterations of the feat apply only to the Lores chosen for those iterations.
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it seems bizarre to me that to improve the Lore skill granted by your background (that must have been a big part of your upbringing?) you have to sacrifice your other skills whereas if you take Additional Lore to pick up Lore: Cheese, you will automatically be a Legendary connoisseur of cheddar one day.
Can you select the background skill you already possess for use with this feat? I'd think not :(
Edit: Unless it is purposefully missing the "that" from the sentence to allow you to increase your background Lore in place of the new lore gained?
Note that this thread was started when signature skills still existed. The removal of signature skills may well have rendered this thread moot.
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Note that this thread was started when signature skills still existed. The removal of signature skills may well have rendered this thread moot.
My question has nothing to do with signature skills. Additional Lore feat says...
At 3rd, 7th, and 15th levels, you gain an
additional skill increase you can apply only to Lore. When you
select this feat, you gain the skill increases immediately for all
listed levels at or below your current level.
My question is is it intended for these new skill increases to be able to be applied to your background Lore skill and not just the new Lore skill gained from selecting this feat?
If I really want Lore Mercantile for my character should I not select a background that grants it so that I may instead select it with this feat so it auto-increases?
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I'm still interested in the answer to one of the OP's questions, which I don't think has been answered.
- snip -
Can you train in additional Lore subtypes at all, or do you need Additional Lore?
It seems as though one ought to be able to take a new Lore skill without taking the Additional Lore feat, but that skill would not automatically increase as the character levels up. Is that correct?
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it seems bizarre to me that to improve the Lore skill granted by your background (that must have been a big part of your upbringing?) you have to sacrifice your other skills whereas if you take Additional Lore to pick up Lore: Cheese, you will automatically be a Legendary connoisseur of cheddar one day.
Think of what the background represents though. You used to be an X, but you stopped in order to be an adventurer. You may still choose to keep investing in what you used to do (I made a Rogue Sailor who upgrades on occassion just because he's still a man of the sea at heart), but more likely you stopped being that thing. A Legendary merchant would have no need to become an adventurer, there's little to gain from the risks. A fledgling merchant though who became an adventurer may choose to improve those skills on his journey because he sees some use in them. Maybe selling some of the rarer goods him and his comrades find.
As for whether Additional Lore can be used for other Lore skills. That's up in the air for me. Pathfinder Hopefuls from the Doomsday Dawn AP get it free as their background feat, so if the complaint is wanting your background Lore to auto-level there is a solution.
With signature skills axed, most of my original question is answered, in that it is no longer applicable. Unlike Perception, Lore is on the skills list, so it can be increased like any other skill. Only Additional Lore gives you free ranks in it by level however.
Think of what the background represents though. You used to be an X, but you stopped in order to be an adventurer. You may still choose to keep investing in what you used to do (I made a Rogue Sailor who upgrades on occassion just because he's still a man of the sea at heart), but more likely you stopped being that thing. A Legendary merchant would have no need to become an adventurer, there's little to gain from the risks.
But spending a feat auto-improves your lore skill. A Fledgling merchant who becomes an adventurer and picks up Additional Lore (Sailing) is going to have quite the sailing expertise when he retires again (unlike the guy who grew up on a boat).
Think of what the background represents though. You used to be an X, but you stopped in order to be an adventurer. You may still choose to keep investing in what you used to do (I made a Rogue Sailor who upgrades on occassion just because he's still a man of the sea at heart), but more likely you stopped being that thing. A Legendary merchant would have no need to become an adventurer, there's little to gain from the risks.But spending a feat auto-improves your lore skill. A Fledgling merchant who becomes an adventurer and picks up Additional Lore (Sailing) is going to have quite the sailing expertise when he retires again (unlike the guy who grew up on a boat).
Yes. Spending a feat, investment, something he's choosing to pick up and do now. He's devoted a good section of his training to learn something new and become really good at it.
Whilst my analogy is not perfect for this one feat, I was replying to the complaint of background Lore not auto-leveling. Not the feat and how it functions.
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Whilst my analogy is not perfect for this one feat, I was replying to the complaint of background Lore not auto-leveling. Not the feat and how it functions.
Just to clarify, I don't want the background lore to auto-scale. I want to know if the intention of the feat is to allow the option of selecting the Background skill.