Crafting Bonuses

[Garion Beckett]

Ok everyone I have a question. I want to build items that have different types of bones to a single skill. I know that the bonuses are circumstance, competence, insight, luck, morale bonuses can all be applied to skill checks.

So I want to build items that use those bonuses to slight of hand. Any ideas how to do that?

[Meirril]

Other than using existing items, this becomes a question of how much is your GM going to allow you to create custom items. The rules for that are presented in the Core Rulebook. Getting to use them...is up to the GM.

If you are the GM the question is one of balance. If this is going to be harmless to the campaign then its fine to push it. If it isn't fair to most of the players in the game, then it shouldn't be done.

Also going to point out that there is no limit on how big a single bonus can be. Generally speaking items offer bonuses between +1 to +5 or even the occasional +10. There is no reason that a +20 couldn't exist. It only costs more gold.

It isn't a question of can it be done, but should it be done?

[MerlinCross]

Meirril hits the nail on the head mechanics wise. I'll attempt to help a bit when it comes to fluff a bit and maybe building it?

Okay so Slight of Hand. We're probably looking into Gloves. Maybe Shoulders, maybe head. Boots I can see(In fact let's work that in).

So, unsure how much this would be priced out, but doing this more for the "Challenge" of making an item that has all those bonuses. Let's do something silly, easy, but also a flavor option to just give an example.

Gloves of the Card Shark -
-These gloves give a +2 Competence bonus to Sleight of Hand checks.
-When using the gloves to hide or draw a Small item without getting caught, +2 Circumstance bonus.
- When worn with their counter part, Boots of Card Shark, +1 Morale.
- Should this be used during games/gambling, +1 Luck.
- Once per day, The user maybe gain a +1 Morale bonus to a Slight of hand check.

Oh wait needed insight..., agh can't think of anything.

But you can probably make an item that has all those bonuses and make it somewhat balanced. The issue is making sure each bonus is turned on only at certain times.

So you'd probably sweep the table with Gloves of the Card Shark. But trying to hide a note or slip fake evidence on the guard captain would still see bonuses just not as much.

[Azothath]

well crafted (masterwork) mundane items usually confer circumstance bonuses.

magic usually gives enhancement bonuses.

competence and morale bonus generally come from bards or spells that boost those areas.

Diviner's class ability gives an insight bonus, rather rare in the game.

luck bonuses are also rare but come from a few well known items that are very expensive or spells that involve luck.

Generally when you have 3 or more different bonuses that stack GMs start to keep an eye on it.

[Garion Beckett]

The GM and I are trying to help a character who wants to be a master pick pocket so I am asking on behalf of the GM. We are playing with a high LVL NPC that requires 70% of all money earned. Lol

[Meirril]

You could actually search the d20PFSRD for slight of hand, luck bonus, ect.

Competence bonus seems to be what every slight of hand boosting item gives. The single largest bonus I found was Gloves of Masterful Gray which give a +10.

Ring of Shadow Mastery is a 3rd party item and needs you to spend Shadow Surges to power it. It offers a +2 insight bonus.

Stone of Good Luck is the poster child of luck bonuses and sets the standard. There is no larger luck bonus to skills. Most luck bonuses apply to saves or AC.

And the only enhancement bonuses I could find were to Dexterity. There are several weapon enhancements that give bonuses to slight of hand to hide the weapon. There is no item to boost all dexterity based skills like there is for charisma.

Oh, and you could use a cyclops helm to give yourself a natural 20 for one check per day.

Personally I'd be more interested in gaining Mind Blank (the spell) for after the theft. High level adventurers have this tendency to not let theft go without trying spells to find out who did it.

[Jeffywan]

Meirril wrote:

Personally I'd be more interested in gaining Mind Blank (the spell) for after the theft. High level adventurers have this tendency to not let theft go without trying spells to find out who did it.

Mind Blank would only help if the creature was the target of their efforts. It says nothing regarding the object itself. So if the owner is looking for an items location they could still find it, but would just not observe the thief, I believe non-detection would be better for the scenario that you described as they would start with trying to locate the item taken.

However Modify Memory could make the person think that they did something else with the item entirely and raise no suspicion. Also helpful if the slight of hand fails, as they could immediately forget about the incident.

[Kayerloth]

If I'm not mistaken 8th level spells aren't generally found on items which probably takes Mind Blank out of the equation. Might make a good base spell requirement for crafting a powerful item however.

A Glove of Storing might be extremely useful for a pick pocket. Add a bonus skill or ability (or more) to the Glove to orient it more towards pick pocket/sleight of hand tasks. Maybe the 'pocketed' item when shrunk down within the Glove of Storing comes under the effect of Obscure Object.

Another relatively powerful spell that might be useful would be Mislead.

[Mark Hoover 330]

Well, the OP's original question was

Garion Becket wrote:

So I want to build items that use those bonuses to slight of hand. Any ideas how to do that?

I suppose the Rules Forum answer would be: follow the rules for custom-making Wondrous Items, then make devices that provide the different bonuses an a variety of amounts commensurate with the crafter's current power levels.

Other, additional abilities might be:

1. A magic item that summons either a creature or a duplicate of the PC to grant Aid Another bonuses

2. Train a pet ferret for the same Aid Another bonuses

3. Buff the pickpocket's Dex

4. Create an item that delivers the effect of a Visualization of the Body spell - a +5 untyped bonus to Dex-based skills

Or just buff this PC with a bunch of spells before he meets the high-level NPC instead. Say you gotta meet Big Tony every Wednesday and you want to palm a handful of gold each week, just before walking into the meeting have a Cat's Grace, Visualization of the Body, Guidance, Heroism, Moment of Greatness, Visualization of the Mind (Charisma; expend for a 1 time +2 Luck bonus to a D20 roll) and Bestow Insight from someone who can also pick pockets. With all of these spells in effect you can make a one-time Sleight of Hand check with a +17 on the roll.

If you have the power in your party to cast all of the above spells for a single Sleight of Hand check, I'm guessing you've got at least a level 5 pickpocket making this attempt. I'm further guessing that this PC's normal bonus is already at least +13 at level 5.

If Big Tony stands a good chance at noticing a +30 Sleight of Hand check, then have all the PCs fake their deaths and run away from Fat Tony.

[Cevah]

Might be easier to create a new spell.
Jump gives +10/+20/+30 enhancement to Acrobatics checks. It is a 1st level spell on a lot of lists.
Create a spell (or via downtime) that targets Slight of Hand checks. It should result as a 1st level spell also, with almost the exact same wording.
This 1st level spell research will cost 1 week and 1000 gp.
(Downtime research is 100 gp/day, 7 days, but failed checks add days.)

/cevah

[AlastarOG]

Ok guys,

1: it's spelled sleight of hand. Oh my god, it's been killing me this whole thread!

2: Before attempting to boost slEight of hand this much, have you considered who your target is? A high level roguish type character should already have a base +20-30 in that skill, and, as pointed above, with spells could go much higher.

Now you CAN easilymake a glove that gives +15 enhancement bonus to sleight of hands on top of that and get a check in the +50-60's, but why would you need it that high? It's not a particularly good skill even, and the costs of adding more would add up.

So yeah, ask what's the approximate dc before building twice as much as you need to on it :P