Alchemist and Prestige classes

[0gre]

buddahcjcc wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

Because they don't cast spells. Check again... look at the word "casts" note that it is in quotes -- they don't actual cast anything. In fact the ability is supernatural if you look at the beginning of the extract area -- therefore it can not be spell casting.

Also note that alchemist do not have a caster level. They are treated as if they do for the extracts, but again -- they are treated which means of course they don't actually have one.

So no item creation feats? Or as they treated as a caster for that too?

You can take Master Craftsman to qualify for Craft Arms and Craft Wondrous but that's it.

[buddahcjcc]

Quantum Steve wrote:

buddahcjcc wrote:

Abraham spalding wrote:

Because they don't cast spells. Check again... look at the word "casts" note that it is in quotes -- they don't actual cast anything. In fact the ability is supernatural if you look at the beginning of the extract area -- therefore it can not be spell casting.

Also note that alchemist do not have a caster level. They are treated as if they do for the extracts, but again -- they are treated which means of course they don't actually have one.

So no item creation feats? Or as they treated as a caster for that too?

No item creation feats except for Brew Potion. Alchemists have a class ability that let's them count as casters and make any potion in their book. Note that regular casters do not have to know a spell to brew a potion, they can add +5 to the DC for not meeting a pre-req; Alchemists cannot do this.

See what makes me think they are a magical/caster class is partiually just a bout any time they need a caster class for something it says "treat the alchemist's level as caster level", plus if they werent any kind of caster, and and all classes could take a buncha points in Craft alchemy and be two classes at once, and if they werent magic related, you wouldnt need Infuse to let other ppl use your extracts and you could give your bombs to other ppl to use (all of which you cant, because theyre magical and they become inert if you do.

[Dethmunki]

So I know this is a bit of threadomancy, but I've always wanted to use this example.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". I bring this up only so others understand another use of the word cast. If we assume that they put spells into a bottle, because that's kind of exactly what they do, and then throw them at an enemy, or "cast" if you will, are they not casting a spell?

For a serious point though, an alchemist is able to create a concoction using reagents and imbue them with magic from their own mystical powers. Since these powers are apparently neither Arcane nor Divine, I can only assume that they command a plane of existence on par with the Gods, much like the Eldrazi of Magic: The Gathering.

Barring that, however, I would like to point out that the Alchemist is required to make it's three signature concoctions, Extracts, Bombs, and Mutagens. Even if another were to learn of the reagent combination and the order in which to combine them, they would be unable to make it do anything the Alchemist could. The Alchemist is only able to create X amount each day before they become inert. This would be due to the magic dissipating, much like a sponge full of water becoming dry the next day. These concoctions also become inert whenever they leave the Alchemists possession (those lacking the proper discoveries). This would imply that there is something of a connection between the Alchemist and his creation. Not being an electronic connection, a legal connection, nor a connection by marriage, This poster assumes that this be a magical one.

I think I had more points along the same lines, but they pretty much repeat the previous paragraph. One might make the argument that yes, he has arcane capabilities but is unable to cast spells (i.e. does not use his magic), but I have come to the conclusion that casting a spell is basically using magic in a very specific manner, and there are a wide variety of spells that specifically do different things. The Alchemist does in fact use his magic in a very specific manner.

Specifically.

Also, I was under the impression that Arcane Spell failure works due to the constricting properties of Armour restricting the capabilities of the spellcaster in question to perform the various oratory and somatic requirements, whereas Alchemists prepare everything(ish) ahead of time.

TL;DR

The Alchemist's magical properties (because either way you look through the glass, her concoctions have magical properties) come from within, and thus are clearly not divine. Some would have you believe that neither are they Arcane, which would imply that they have the power of Gods of Gods. I'm okay with it either way.

#TheEldraziHaveReturned

[zza ni]

i would say the following though,
while alchemist are, by raw, not counted as spell casters for feats\prestige class requirements etc. if one can get into a prestige class that have +1 to spell caster level when leveling, i would say he can use it for his alchemist levels. as the only thing that that thing give is more spells per day and higher level of casting something that arguably can be said the alchemist still have even though they don't count as official arcane casters.

look at the souldrinker prestige class for example. it has requirements that even a barbarian can get: 5 ranks in two skills .a set belief and a learned language(basically 1 more skill rank spent). if an alchemist start that class. id say let him get the increase in his spellcasting

-as some1 up the thread pointed out he resemble the warlocks\truenameers and shadow-casters from 3.5 who are not spellcasting classes but when and if they joined a prestige class that increased it they were given said increase to their casting level non the less.

[Entryhazard]

Phasics wrote:

here's the key problems

Alchemist + Heavy Armor = 0% arcane spell failure

Alchemist already has a specific PrC if you want to do something more Fighterish with it.

lets go alphabetically
Arcane Archer , as Alchemist you can qualify at 8th level , have a mutgaen to beef whatever stat you want by 4. wear whatever armor you want no arcane spell failure, and be full alchemist casting minus 3 over 10 levels of AA, plus as a alchemist bomber you already want the prereq feats for your bombs.

...no, just .... no

Eh, not really worse than a Bloodrager (Maybe even steelblood)