Why use full-plate over half-plate?

[willuwontu]

Half plate with 14 dex (it's cap of +2 bonus, easy enough to get on the side from boosts) has the same AC as full plate. It's also cheaper, available from level 1, lower bulk, has a higher TAC, and isn't clumsy.

Why make full-plate just a bad option?

[Wolfgang Hype]

I think they just wanted to see how many traits they can add in for people to ignore- Clumsy, volley, fragile... I'm just going to pretend these don't exist.

[Lyee]

For one, I think player AC should be down by 2 across the board. Monsters and NPCs all have -2 AC from how you'd calculate it as a player, and +2 attack (to account for the PCs not having the -2 AC). This seems ugly, basically saying the formula starts at 8AC but to the players it uses 10 because it's a round number and the GM has to handle the conversion because it's ugly.

After that's done, I think just up the AC of Full-Plate by 1 as a start. Let it be the most defensive option for non-TAC. Currently it's... just equal to everything.

[Secret Wizard]

Why would anyone NOT use Splint Mail?

If you keep DEX at 14, which seems perfectly reasonable, you are getting no penalties from Clumsy and you get less ACP than Half-Plate or Full Plate.

[Dαedαlus]

Is there any penalty to wearing armor you’re not proficient in? I don’t have my book at the moment, so I can’t check, but I don’t remember anything being said.

[Bardarok]

Dαedαlus wrote:

Is there any penalty to wearing armor you’re not proficient in? I don’t have my book at the moment, so I can’t check, but I don’t remember anything being said.

I think it is just lower AC since your proficiency bonus is untrained (lvl -2).

[Rekijan]

I wanted to add to this discussion.

Full plate gives you the same AC as studded leather or a chain shirt with high enough dex. But the lighter have less disadvantages and grant a higher TAC. It's not unless you have a higher type of proficiency that the normal AC gets higher and even then you are still having drawbacks and a lower TAC.

“Armor Traits: Clumsy This armor’s Dexterity modifier cap also applies to Reflex saves and to all Dexterity-based skill and ability checks that don’t have the attack trait.”

Probably should be made clear that it's not your total reflex save is capped to the dex cap value, just the dex bonus part of it?

In addition armor being restrictive is a myth. A properly made full plate doesn’t restrict your mobility. You can still do shoulder rolls and jumping jacks just fine, you can look this up. Full plate was awesome for its time period for a reason, but in PF2 it seems hardly worth it. Which is sad because it diminishes the idea of a knight in full plate.

[Damanta]

Unless you're going to play a Grey Maiden with 10 dex, as a fighter it's best to stick to splint mail with 14 dex. The clumsy trait then doesn't matter at all.

Grey Maiden with her iconic maiden plate seems to be capable of the highest proficiency with armor (legendary at 18), which makes that the most defensive option I've seen on my (admittedly quick) read through.

[Cantriped]

If you are willing to make the Investment, the Lighter the suit of armor, the better your statistics. However every suit of armor worth wearing caps out at +12 to AC. If you cannot or will not invest in Dex, you can invest about half as much into Str (to carry the added bulk), and suffer some other penalties and still have a competitive AC (if not TAC). Heavy Armor only exists in PF2 to shore up characters who didn't invest in Dex.

[Rekijan]

Damanta wrote:

Unless you're going to play a Grey Maiden with 10 dex, as a fighter it's best to stick to splint mail with 14 dex. The clumsy trait then doesn't matter at all.

Grey Maiden with her iconic maiden plate seems to be capable of the highest proficiency with armor (legendary at 18), which makes that the most defensive option I've seen on my (admittedly quick) read through.

Except your reflex save will suffer and your TAC will be lower.

[Damanta]

Rekijan wrote:

Damanta wrote:

Unless you're going to play a Grey Maiden with 10 dex, as a fighter it's best to stick to splint mail with 14 dex. The clumsy trait then doesn't matter at all.

Grey Maiden with her iconic maiden plate seems to be capable of the highest proficiency with armor (legendary at 18), which makes that the most defensive option I've seen on my (admittedly quick) read through.

Edit: Paladins can get legendary with all armor, so Grey Maiden is not the only way :P

Except your reflex save will suffer and your TAC will be lower.

A heavy armor user with 14 dex will have the same reflex save and TAC in a splint mail as one in a half plate.

Yes, if you raise your dex above 14 you'll have a higher reflex save in halfplate.

[Excaliburproxy]

I essentially came onto this section of the board to make this exact post. How many builds are there that can really benefit from having just 8/10/12 dex? Those are the only builds who would have any interest in full plate and even then, I imagine many might pass it up for splint mail just to avoid bulk and so they won't drown in 4 feet of water.

And this SUCKS!

Full plate armor is really cool and it should feel cool in the game.

[Warmagon]

A lot depends on the character. For example, a melee cleric might want str, con for physical combat stats, wis for their spells, and cha for channels. So yeah, dex can be handy, but it's not necessarily the biggest priority either. And clumsy was just max dex applies to reflex, right? So if you have a bad dex, it doesn't matter.

[PossibleCabbage]

I feel like, with attributes going up 4 at a time, if there weren't things to say "your dex benefit beyond this point is minimal" people would just boost the three save-granting stats every time.

So full plate lets you stop boosting dex and worry about other things- like resonance or skills.

[Excaliburproxy]

But going from 12 Dex to 14 Dex (full plate to splint mail) gives your strength character +1 TAC, +1 reflex saves, +1 ranged attacks, and reduces your armor check penalties by 2. It is also much cheaper to make mythril splint mail so by the time you are lookin at level 11/12, you will often have no armor check penalties at all. Not getting Dex to at least 14 is kind of a chump move, frankly. The extra 1 or 2 hit points a level for pumpkin con is probably not worth your increased vulnerability to touch attacks and aoe spells.

Plate armor is destined to be the domain of extremely niche builds.