shadow conjuration spell and alignment?


Rules Questions


so shadow conjuration says it can mimic any sorcerer conjuration (summoning) spells but would it be forced to match the alignment of said spells? like an evil character using a shadow to create a celestial eagle?

obviously if someone flat out knows your evil they'd automatically win the saving throw but if they dont know you?


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If you cast the real summoning spell, you can choose a celestial or fiendish animal regardless of your alignment. The spell becomes good or evil based on what you summon, not the caster.

So if you shadow conjured a good outsider, its detects as a good spell. It also detects as a conjuration and depending on what spell is used, as an illusion.

Silver Crusade

And summons don't have free will, a celestial summoned by a CE sorcerer can be made to slaughter orphans.


i dont know how to quote the book but it says specifically that summons with * next to it are summoned as a celestial if good or fiendish if evil and then you can choose if your neutral. so if a sorcerer is good an eagle would have to use the celestial template. its at the bottem of any summon monster table.


Summon Monster 1 wrote:
When you use a summoning spell to summon a creature with an alignment or elemental subtype, it is a spell of that type. Creatures on Table 10–1 marked with an “*” are summoned with the celestial template, if you are good, and the fiendish template, if you are evil. If you are neutral, you may choose which template to apply to the creature. Creatures marked with an “*” always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell's type match your alignment.

The one other thing affecting this being Clerics, who can't cast spells opposed to her or her deity's alignment, for that one neutral aligned, good worshipping guy trying to summon fiends.

Either way, I don't know that all those shadow spells take the descriptors of the spells they mimic. The spells themselves make no mention of it at all, so I'd guess they don't. They're just Illusion (shadow).
It could be implied, I guess, but if so it really should be explicit.

I do believe you'd still be bound by the limitations of the spell you're mimicking, and that it is cast as if it was the real thing.
If I'm correct, no fake celestials for your evil shadow conjurer. Fake Fiends wouldn't be evil though. And our hypothetical neutral cleric of evilness might be able to summon bootleg shadow celestials - since Summon Monster doesn't seem to care about your god's alignment, just your own. Maybe. Big maybe.

To go a bit further, I am however unclear as to what that implies for enchantments (since shadow is not one of the "always a mental effect" subschools of illusion) and transmutation, as those are both likely to run into resistances, immunities, stacking issues and the like.

There's got to be a faq somewhere about all of that and I just missed it.


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I'd say that the alignment is irrelevant. Why? You're not conjuring a celestial eagle. What your'e doing is creating a quasi-real illusion of a celestial eagle. Your'e still casting the shadow conjuration spell, which has no alignment restrictions. Your creation is not called upon to arrive from another plane, it's made of shadow. So therefore, since you're not actually casting said summoning spell but rather an unaffiliated illusion, no alignment issues.

Silver Crusade

The argument about clerics is irrelevant, because Shadow Conjuration isn't a cleric spell, they can't cast it, the only ones who can cast it are the ones who can cast from any alignment.

Silver Crusade

Val'bryn2 wrote:
The argument about clerics is irrelevant, because Shadow Conjuration isn't a cleric spell, they can't cast it, the only ones who can cast it are the ones who can cast from any alignment.

Except there are many ways for Clerics to cast it: Domains, Dreamed Secrets feat, Samsaran alternate racial trait, UMD ...


Pathfinder savant prestige class, plain old multiclassing to wizard, . . .


When you use a summoning spell to summon a creature with an alignment or elemental subtype, it is a spell of that type. Creatures on Table 10–1 marked with an "*" are summoned with the celestial template, if you are good, and the fiendish template, if you are evil. If you are neutral, you may choose which template to apply to the creature. Creatures marked with an "*" always have an alignment that matches yours, regardless of their usual alignment. Summoning these creatures makes the summoning spell's type match your alignment.
You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.

The bolded sections of the spell descriptions seem to say that you are not bound by your alignment. Shadow Conjurations is not a summoning spell, and you are creating the creature or object not summoning it. Summon Monster also states that when you summon a creature with a type the spell becomes that type. So if you are bound by the alignment it also means that the spell becomes the a spell of the type of creature summoned. That would mean that if you use Shadow Conjuration to summon a fire elemental the spell becomes of fire spell. So if the sorcerer has the feat elemental focus its saving throw is increased.

Shadow Conjuration also states that it mimics the spell, not that it duplicates it. The difference is subtle, but there is a difference.


Let's simplify slightly by removing the whole "not technically summoned" thing.

Would Iomedae be cool with her cleric using shadow evocation to mimic a pain strike spell since it's only kinda-sorta real?

Or if you'd rather stick with shadow conjuration: How about "shaping" a quasi-real erinyes and having it use unholy blight on someone?


blahpers wrote:
Or if you'd rather stick with shadow conjuration: How about "shaping" a quasi-real erinyes and having it use unholy blight on someone?

my idea is more for evil casters trying to feign being good. if you summon a celestial, the initial implication would be you are good or neutral. and if someone doesnt see through the illusion they have no reason to believe its anything besides summon monster.

not saying a sure fire thing but i would hope it give a circumstance bonus at least


Keep in mind, those who see you casting can also simply make a spellcraft check to identify your spells.

Beyond that, regarding convincing people and whatnot, that's really a case by case, your GM decides thing. It could certainly help if it works, but it's not that to see through : suspicious folk will likely be watching anyway, to make sure you're not just a profane caster.
There are ways to fool pretty much everything, sure, but that's an investment.

And about gods and what they might think ... Depends on the god, and the context. Some will clearly not enjoy such trickery.

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