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OK, so we know pf2 plans to cut down on spells by merging many into one heightenable spell (e.g. Heal (1), Heal (2) etc. instead of clw, cmw, etc.) but just how far does this go?
I noticed someone complaining on the sorcerer thread that if they didn't get an arcane spell list they wouldn't have Mage armour and Shield, and someone else pointing out that divine lists have Barkskin and Shield of Faith which are essentially the same thing, and I thought, "aren't paizo committed to reducing spells by merging ones that are essentially the same?"
So it got me wondering, if this is so what else might be merged?
Then there is the question of heightened spells. We know that many spells of similar theme but different level have been merged into 1 heightenable spell, so e.g. pf2 Fly(1)= pf1 feather fall, fly (2)=levitate, fly (3)=fly, fly (4)=Overland flight, etc.
The question is, what else is there?
I know Invisibilty(2) and invisibility (4) replace invisibility and greater invisibility (there is no invisibility (3)), but is there invisibility (1), formerly vanish?
What about teleport spells; Dimension Door and Teleport obviously go together but is there a low level version (like Dimensional slide from the arcanist)?
And are there any others that obviously go together?
A simple thing to add here are the lesser, greater and communal versions of several spells.
I'm all about merging spells that give roughly the same bonus to the same score. That seems like a no-brainer.
Others that might make sense:
Light -> Daylight -> Sunbeam
Blur + Mirror Image
Lightning Bolt -> Chain Lightning
Entangle + Plant Growth -> Wall of Thorns?
What I'm more interested in is how buffs are going to stack, and which low levels spells are going to be more useful at higher levels than others. I'm worried that spells that keep well and are heightenable will be way too attractive compared to other same level spells.
The flight spells came out of Starfinder where learning (as an example) Flight (3) gives you access to all the lower level versions. It isn't clear if PF2 will allow that.
Since we don't have the spell list for Pathfinder, it is difficult to know exactly how much of this will be done. I imagine some of it may be adjusted during playtest based on feedback.
Here are some of the spells that were individual spells in PF1 and are combined in Starfinder.
Summon Creature has always been sort of like that, one spell that at different levels gives you different creatures. If they base it on the Starfinder model, when you take the spell you also determine exactly which creatures you get. In Starfinder, they have a base and various grafts that allow you to create the creatures. You define four creatures that you get at each level you can cast it, but still have the option of having one of those choices being multiple of the next level down.
Mind Thrust is another spell that has multiple levels in Starfinder, but the only thing that really changes for that spell is the damage done.
Fear is a multi-level spell that has four levels, going from PF1 Cause Fear at 1st to PF1 Fear spell at 4th.
Strangely enough, there are some spells in Starfinder that still have the lesser and greater versions such as Resistant Armor, Remove Condition, Restoration, and Dispel Magic.
There are a lot of spells that can be consolidated, either because they're in a chain, like summon, heal, fly, invisibility, silent image, displacement, fog cloud, fireball, make whole, and many others; or because they give bonuses of different types that are themselves being consolidated, like bless, heroism, divine favor, etc. Then, some spells will disappear because their use is marginal, especially those that were added with the later books.
The good news is, this will create a lot of space for adding cool new spells.
It makes sense to merge spells if the mechanics of the spell don't change too much, otherwise it makes sense to make a new spell.
For instance, Invisibility = Vanish + Invisibility + Greater Invisibility makes sense.
I'm not sure Blur and Mirror Image makes sense.
Blur and Displacement could be replaced by just "Displacement" however.
There is also the interesting issue of having too many low levels spells and not enough high level spells if too many spells are merged. I don't think they want too much bloat at low levels since they're trying to simplify the game, not inundate new players with too much information.
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I hate when a series of spells refers back to other spells, so that I have to flip through three descriptions to find out the full details. Such as:
Acid fog
Acid fog creates a billowing mass of misty vapors like the solid fog spell. ...
Solid Fog
This spell functions like fog cloud, but in addition to ...
Fog Cloud
A bank of fog billows out from the point you designate. The fog obscures all sight, ...
I would love if they were grouped together as one heightenable spell.
Like Jason S said, it makes sense where the same mechanic is used, just with higher numbers, but I definitely would not want to see, say, Mirror Image and Displacement in the same spell. Unless the "Heighten" line comes out to basically one sentence, then it's probably not a good candidate.
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Like Jason S said, it makes sense where the same mechanic is used, just with higher numbers, but I definitely would not want to see, say, Mirror Image and Displacement in the same spell. Unless the "Heighten" line comes out to basically one sentence, then it's probably not a good candidate.
Let me use Acid Fog as a test how heightening looks with full paragraph differences.
Stubborn Fog Spell 2
Conjuration, Creation
Casting Verbal, Somatic
Range medium (100 feet) Area 20-foot radius spread
Duration 30 minutes
A bank of fog billows out from the point you designate. The fog obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (flat DC 5). Creatures farther away have total concealment (flat DC 11).
A moderate wind (11+ mph) disperses the fog in 4 rounds; a strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round.
The spell does not function underwater.
Heightened (3rd) Cohesive Fog - Only a severe wind (31+ mph) disperses these vapors, and it does so in 1 round.
Heightened (4th) Solid Fog - Like cohesive fog and this fog is also so thick that it impedes movement. Creatures moving through a solid fog move at half their normal speed and take a –2 penalty on all melee attack and melee damage rolls. The vapors prevent effective ranged weapon attacks (except for magic rays and the like). A creature or object that falls into solid fog is slowed so that each 10 feet of vapor that it passes through reduces the falling damage by 1d6. A creature cannot take a 5-foot-step while in solid fog. Solid fog, and effects that work like solid fog, do not stack with each other in terms of slowed movement and attack penalties.
Heightened (6th) Acid Fog - Like solid fog with duration 1 minute and this fog is also highly acidic. Each round on your turn, starting when you cast the spell, the fog deals 2d6 points of acid damage to each creature and object within it.
Stubborn fog can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent stubborn fog dispersed by wind reforms in 10 minutes.
I like the example you give, Mathmuse, and hope this is one of the consolidated spells we see in PF2.
I like the example you give, Mathmuse, and hope this is one of the consolidated spells we see in PF2.
I think most of it looks great, except for the solid wall of text that the Solid Fog option is going to be in a two-column book format. (I exaggerate a little, but it would be pretty wordy to dissect in the middle of a combat. Maybe streamlining some of it or eliminating some of the mechanics using conditions.)
Strangely enough, there are some spells in Starfinder that still have the lesser and greater versions such as Resistant Armor, Remove Condition, Restoration, and Dispel Magic.
They kept all spells that skipped a level separate.