Maximum expendable resource points build - not casting

[Kiesman]

I've been trying to figure out what classes/archetypes/feat options would give me a character with the most possible expendable resource points (eg. Ki points, Power Points, Grit/Panache etc).

I want to try to make a character that just spams the use of their Ki powers or whatever relevant ability in combat, with a large variety of different effects.

I looked at the Qinggong Monk, as well as Ninja options as it seems Ki Points are the most likely to be what I'll be going for, but I'm wondering if anyone has other options? Multiclassing etc is 100% okay, as long as the character can still be at least medium powered.

Thanks!

EDIT: No Gestalt or Variant Multiclassing options please.

[Ageless_Bum]

Well there seems I have a few questions for you.

What type of abilities are you hoping to have?
What role are you wanting to fill?
Why no casting?
Why no VMC?

I also feel it is somewhat necessary to point out that most any class with a pool has a limited pool specifically so that you can not "spam" powers in combat.

The closest two I could see to a harder to run out pool are:
1) panache points for swashbucklers panache pool. A critical hit or a killing blow gets 1 panache back.
2) drunken ki for drunken master monks. Drinking alcohol gets a point. Can be combined with Qinggong archetype and you can get ki leech to get a point back from a killing blow.

[Kiesman]

To answer your questions:
1) Mostly offensive abilities, like how the Qinggong Monk gets to breath fire
2) Probably a damage role
3) Some people would say "spell slots" are an "expendable resource pool"
4) No VMC because my group doesn't do VMC.

Essentially I'm looking for a build with the most possible resource pool points. Drunken Qinggong sounds close to what I want, and if I can take a level of Swashbuckler for even more points to spend, that might work?

[Floppy Toast]

Are you wanting to have a whole bunch of different pools to use, or do you want to have one big pool that you use for everything?
Also: are you trying to focus on a specific stat?

[Ageless_Bum]

well if you do try to blend them, keep in mind that the swashbuckler ability to regain panache is based on using a 1 handed light piercing weapon.

I am not sure how much you are planning on using the abilities of the two classes in concert, but there are a limited number of one handed light monk piercing weapons with good crit range. I would recommend the wave blade (but it is an exotic weapon) if you intend to flurry.

[Floppy Toast]

I mean, you could take Hamatulatsu (Might be misspelled) and Improved Critical.
Your Crit Range still won't be the greatest, but your Unarmed Strikes will deal Piercing Damage, and if you make enough attacks, you're bound to Crit sometime, right?

[Floppy Toast]

Also, Swashbuckler is Dex/Cha based, right?
And Core Monk is Wis/Dex/Strength based.
This might be a problem, as you are dependent on five stats.
I don't know if Core Monk can use the Scaled Fist archetype but if you can, Scaled Fist is dependent on Cha instead of Wis.

[Kiesman]

Honestly, whether I have a bunch of different pools or one big pool doesn't matter to me. I just want to have the largest possible amount of pool points to grab from. I don't want "3 points for an adventuring day" that makes me resort to basic attack actions most of the time.

[Ageless_Bum]

Floppy Toast wrote:

I mean, you could take Hamatulatsu (Might be misspelled) and Improved Critical.

Your Crit Range still won't be the greatest, but your Unarmed Strikes will deal Piercing Damage, and if you make enough attacks, you're bound to Crit sometime, right?

That is true. Though isn't that type of monk campaign specific, or maybe it had some other limiting factor to it?

[Ageless_Bum]

Floppy Toast wrote:

Also, Swashbuckler is Dex/Cha based, right?

And Core Monk is Wis/Dex/Strength based.
This might be a problem, as you are dependent on five stats.
I don't know if Core Monk can use the Scaled Fist archetype but if you can, Scaled Fist is dependent on Cha instead of Wis.

Yes Scaled Fist can be taken by vanilla monk but it isn't compatible with drunken master.

[Floppy Toast]

If I remember right, you usually are a member of the Sisterhood of the Golden Erinyes (So... Lawful Neutral unless you're playing Hell's Rebels or something)
I think it's from the Inner Sea line of books.

[Kobold Commando]

if you already want waveblade proficency, and are planning on taking as many various pools as you can just for the sake of having them, I'd reccomend a dip in brawler for proficiency and access to Martial Flexibility. It's a pool which can buy you into other pools with as needed assuming there are feats for that.

[VoodistMonk]

Hungry Ghost Monk regains Ki with confirmed criticals and kills. Also regains health with confirmed criticals and kills, which is neat.

[Kiesman]

I managed to come up with a quick build, very poorly optimized, but I feel like it gives a decent amount of options of things to do each turn.

Point pools build:

So many points + powers
25 pt buy

Human

Str: 18 (16+2)
Dex: 12
Con: 10
Int: 8
Wis: 16
Cha: 14

Brawler 1/Swashbuckler 1/Hungry Ghost-Qinggong Monk X

Feats & Relevant Abilities

1- (Brawler 1) B: Waveblade prof.(close weapon), Weapon Focus: Waveblade, Martial Flex.
2- (Monk 1) B: Improved Unarmed, B: Dodge, B: Punishing Kick
3- (Monk 2) B: Deflect Arrows, Extra Martial Flexibility
4- (Monk 3) +1 Str
5- (Monk 4) Extra Ki, Scorching Ray Ki Power
6- (Swashbuckler 1) B: Weapon Finesse, Parry and Riposte
7- (Monk 5) Feat?, Hydraulic Push/Barkskin Ki Power?
8- (Monk 6) +1 Str, B: Mobility
Etc…
14- (Monk 12) Dragon’s Breath Ki Power

Pools @ 7th lvl, Martial Flexibility 6/day, Panache 2/day, Ki Pool 7/day
Abilities to use: Parry and Riposte, Scorching Ray, Barkskin/Hydraulic Push, Punishing Kick

[Ageless_Bum]

I think if you rearrange your stats a bit and take drunke master instead of Hungry Ghost, you will find yourself more Ki readily available.

I was thinking that because you want to prioritize your Ki powers like Scorching Ray and Dragons Breath, you do not need to worry about Str as much. Because you are going to get weapon finesse, you could take from str and go more into dex and con. With the Deep Drinker feat added in, you can get 2 ki points for each time you drink.

With a Con 14 or over and the monks great fort saves, you can drink several times without risk, and getting the Life leach Ki power will still net you Ki when you kill something, so the only thing you would lose is the on critical, but I think you will get more consistent ki from drinking than critical hits.

Small changes but this could work:

25 pt buy

Human
Str: 10 

Dex: 17 (15+2) 

Con: 14 

Int: 8 

Wis: 16 

Cha: 14
Brawler 1/Swashbuckler 1/Drunken Master-Qinggong Monk X

Feats & Relevant Abilities
1- (Brawler 1) B: Waveblade prof.(close weapon), Weapon Focus: Waveblade, Martial Flex. 

2- (Monk 1) B: Improved Unarmed, B: Dodge, B: Punishing Kick 

3- (Monk 2) B: Deflect Arrows, Extra Martial Flexibility 

4- (Monk 3) +1 Dex 

5- (Monk 4) Extra Ki, Scorching Ray Ki Power 

6- (Swashbuckler 1) B: Weapon Finesse, Parry and Riposte 

7- (Monk 5) Feat?, Hydraulic Push/Barkskin Ki Power? 

8- (Monk 6) +1 Con, B: Mobility 
Etc… 

11 Deep Drinker
14- (Monk 12) Dragon’s Breath Ki Power
Pools @ 7th lvl, Martial Flexibility 6/day, Panache 2/day, Ki Pool 7/day 
Abilities to use: Parry and Riposte, Scorching Ray, Barkskin/Hydraulic Push, Punishing Kick

Put agility on your waveblade, and you probably wouldn't have much issue.

[avr]

Drunken ki isn't quite unlimited. Under alcohol's listing as a drug, ' In general, a character can consume a number of alcoholic beverages equal to 1 plus double his Constitution modifier before being sickened for 1 hour equal to the number of drinks above this maximum.' While that's not absolutely clear (I think it's sickened for a number of hours = number of drinks over the limit) there are obviously problems with trying to abuse alcohol.

One other means of getting a lot of ki is to take one level in cleric of Irori (or a life oracle who worships Irori, etc.) and get a bronze gong. This lets you convert uses of channel energy into ki. It'd work particularly well for a ninja or a nornkith monk, or scaled fist monk who has a ki pool based off Cha.

[Dragonchess Player]

If you count rage rounds as an "expendable resource," then barbarians can gain the most, especially with all of the feats (Destroyer's Blessing, Extra Rage, Gore Fiend, Raging Deathblow, Recovered Rage, and Thrill of the Kill) that grant increases in the number of rage rounds (on top of the 2 additional rounds gained for each barbarian level after 1st) or ways to regain rounds of rage. And Unfettered Rage even lets you spend an extra round of rage to gain an extra melee attack.

[Meirril]

Go for a Qinggong Drunken Master Monk. Start with the traits Accelerated Drinking and Fortified Drinker since we'll be drinking often. Worship Caden Calien and get Drunken Brawler feat at first level. Plan to acquire Fast Drinker at 3rd level (first level you qualify for the feat). You can retrain Accelerated Drinking away if you want. At 4th level pick up Scorching Ray. Now every round drink to reset your temp HP to your level, and to use Scourching Ray every round. Make sure you drink often to keep your alcohol addiction penalty from kicking in. Just accept that you'll be sickened most of the time.

At 8th level pick up Dragon's Breath and retrain Scorching Ray since you'll probably never cast it again.

[Ageless_Bum]

avr wrote:

Drunken ki isn't quite unlimited. Under alcohol's listing as a drug, ' In general, a character can consume a number of alcoholic beverages equal to 1 plus double his Constitution modifier before being sickened for 1 hour equal to the number of drinks above this maximum.' While that's not absolutely clear (I think it's sickened for a number of hours = number of drinks over the limit) there are obviously problems with trying to abuse alcohol.

I wonder what the time frame for number of drinks is. I assume daily. If that is the case and the con acore is 14 then they could drink 5 times a day for 2 ki each time. If it us sinply 5 times leriod before you get addicted then it wouldnt be worth it.

[Meirril]

Ageless_Bum wrote:

avr wrote:

Drunken ki isn't quite unlimited. Under alcohol's listing as a drug, ' In general, a character can consume a number of alcoholic beverages equal to 1 plus double his Constitution modifier before being sickened for 1 hour equal to the number of drinks above this maximum.' While that's not absolutely clear (I think it's sickened for a number of hours = number of drinks over the limit) there are obviously problems with trying to abuse alcohol.

I wonder what the time frame for number of drinks is. I assume daily. If that is the case and the con acore is 14 then they could drink 5 times a day for 2 ki each time. If it us sinply 5 times leriod before you get addicted then it wouldnt be worth it.

The build I recommended requires an 18 con, so its 9 drinks per day before you are sickened for an hour. But here is the thing, so what if you are sickened? You're throwing out a dragon breath of your level/d6 every round for the -2 to saves you get. Who cares if you are -2 to hit, or -2 on skills because you aren't going to ever melee attack or do skills! Addiction is meaningless if you keep drinking. And after you exceed your 9 drinks...you become sickened. It doesn't matter how many more drinks you take. So as long as you are willing to put up with the sickened condition, your ki pool is only limited by the amount of alcohol you have.

An item like Drinking Horn of Bottomless Valor sounds like a good idea, but it isn't. It is a command word to refil, so takes a standard action. That is no good. The Fighting Tankard acts like a +1 hammer and has 6 extra dimensional spaces to hold 1/2 cubic feet of liquids in each sounds good too, but I think I personally prefer a simple bottle of whisky At 1sp per drink, a bottle will cost 3gp (2gp for the bottle, 1gp for the 10 drinks). If you have a havard's handy haversack it only takes a move action to retrieve 10 more drinks. If you recover the bottles you can get a distillery to refill the bottles for 1gp each. If you don't...who cares? If you are really desperate you can get a cleric to fill the bottles with water and then cast Enhance Water on them (1st level spell, creates ale).

What you really want is to convince the GM to let you buy an endless mug. Something with the combined abilities of Create Water (cantrip) and Enhance Water (1st level bard/cleric/paladin spell). Rules say it should be 3k to make it, but I could see it selling between 2-5k because it really has a minor effect that is a huge benefit to this build. Any more than 5k and other items that create drinks start to appear, all of them do something more than just create drinks, and they are all priced on the other abilities. The drink creation is free on those items.

[Kiesman]

Interesting options. Is Meirril's build idea just 100% monk? My problem with it is that I really do want a variety of things to do at any given time, not just use the same action each round (i.e. Scorching Ray every round until Dragon Breath).

[Meirril]

Kiesman wrote:

Interesting options. Is Meirril's build idea just 100% monk? My problem with it is that I really do want a variety of things to do at any given time, not just use the same action each round (i.e. Scorching Ray every round until Dragon Breath).

Yes, it is 100% monk to level 8. After that you could dip anywhere you want but there is no reason to. Look over Quiagon Monk. My build focuses on abusing the heck out of Drunken Ki to use Dragon Breath (a 2 ki point ability) every round. There are a ton of different powers you could use. I just focused on the best one of the bunch. Dragon Breath lets you throw out a line or cone with several different energy types. The damage maxes out at 12d6 at 12th level...but so what? Even blaster type characters can't do this sort of thing every round. Oh, and lets not forget that you get your level in temporary hp every time you drink!

Also Drunken Ki and Fast Drinker lets you build Drunken Ki as fast as what I think your main attack would be. That leaves you a ton of ki points to spend on other abilities.

One thing to say about this build: for a monk it is a weak melee fighter. You should be sickened with this build. Using nothing but spell effects kind of gets around the -2 to hit, but if you start doing melee combat the lack of strength will hurt you as well. Some items can get rid of the sickened condition permanently and once the party starts throwing heal around you'll get your addiction removed every time its cast.