Wishing unintentionally & cooperative wishing

[Adjoint]

There are some creatures that have the ability to grant wishes but with limitation that it is for another creature only.

My question is: Is it possible to make a wish to such creature unintentionally? For example, if you express a wish in the presence of a veiled glabrezu, can it choose to fulfill that wish on its own (twisting it while at it)? If so, does the wish need to be expressed in some specific way, or can a casual comment or command (like "We need some beef for the dinner", or "Move faster!" spoke to a companion) be interpeted as a wish?
Or is it necessary for the wish-maker and the wish-granting creature to cooperate in some way, for example the wish-maker needs be aware he is making a magical wish and needs to word the wish in a specific way ("I wish that ...")?

Second question: Can the wish-granting creature decide not to grant the wish after hearing what it is, or does it need to activate its ability beforehand, and it cannot back down after the wish is spoken? For example if someone is making a wish to a glabrezu, and words it so pedanticaly, that the glabrezu cannot find a way to twist it, can the glabrezu simply choose not fullfilling it at all?

[Claxon]

As far as I know the rules in no way cover this and it's going to be an individual GM case.

And actually I would hate for there to be rules on it, because then players will find ways to abuse it.

A a GM I can always say: "The glabrezu, hearing your rather wordy wish, walks away from you before you can finish and stops listening."

I've also done "With how you've worded that wish, I cannot fulfill it as you request". Oh, you came up with all sorts of contingencies to stop anything bad from happening, well the power of this creatures wish can't produce the result you want without bad things happening someplace. Even if it is in the vein of "I wish for riches" and then a king comes searching for his gold that you now possess.

However, I would never have a wish done just to screw a player without their intentionally wishing for something.

[Azothath]

Adjoint wrote:

There are some creatures that have the ability to grant wishes but with limitation that it is for another creature only.

1) Is it possible to make a wish to such creature unintentionally?

2) Or is it necessary for the wish-maker and the wish-granting creature to cooperate in some way...?

3) Can the wish-granting creature decide not to grant the wish after hearing what it is, or does it need to activate its ability beforehand, and it cannot back down after the wish is spoken?

in short; yes, no but helps, and yes.

1) leads to many a comedy or tragedy. RAW doesn't restrict GM action or choice in this area but things should be kept in line with the Wish spell. Chaotic creatures thrive on such foolishness and whimsy. It can be a source of drama or conflict in a story or plot. In a game you have to be careful with it as it can lead to paranoia or a sense that things are whimsical and as a GM you'll fix any problems.

2) cooperation isn't required. It can help convey desires and reduce differences in expectations afterwards.

3) as an SU or SP ability it takes a standard action (as it's not specified in the description, thus generic rules apply). I assume that the creature hears the question/plea/wish and then interprets it as it will and invokes its magicial ability to create what it wants in a rather broad brush manner with specified details. The devil is in those details.

[Azothath]

read
"The Monkey's Paw" by W. W. Jacobs
"The Seventh Wish" by Kate Messner
several of Shakespear's plays...
Moorecocks books, particularly Balo and some gods of chaos
"The Ancient Magus's Bride" - Ashen Eye.

[blahpers]

We can point to works of fiction that describe any of the above possibilities--wisher must explicitly wish and know that they're making a supernatural wish, wisher must explicitly wish but can do so not realizing it will be granted, wisher can just make offhand remark, and so on. There's no real guidance as to which interpretation is intended for a given entity, which leaves it in the realm of GM interpretation.

[Weirdo]

Personally I think it makes sense to vary based on creature.

Devils work through contracts, so if they can grant wishes it will only be through a contract, and if they sign it they are obligated to follow through - though they're unlikely to sign / grant the wish unless they're confident they'll come out on top.

Something noted for being capricious like a Marid or a fey might very well be capable of responding to unintentional wishes.

[Adjoint]

Weirdo wrote:

Personally I think it makes sense to vary based on creature.

Devils work through contracts, so if they can grant wishes it will only be through a contract, and if they sign it they are obligated to follow through - though they're unlikely to sign / grant the wish unless they're confident they'll come out on top.

Something noted for being capricious like a Marid or a fey might very well be capable of responding to unintentional wishes.

What do you think would fit a glabrezu? A demon whose favorite method of causing suffering is to twist the wishes of mortals, and who has a powerful Veil ability to pose as something else?

[Meirril]

For a lot of the wish-granting races its a sort of last resort "don't kill me" ability. Sure, you can try to lure someone into making a wish and then having fun with what actually happens, but its a lot more common in stories that wishes are given to repay kindness or to make amends. The wish giver usually doesn't want to give a wish because its a huge strain on them, but under the correct circumstances they feel it is justified.

Mostly I'd say its dependent on the being granting the wish. A glabrezu that herd someone say something interesting would definitely force a wish on someone they took an interest in. A Devil would gladly sign a contract that favored them. A Fae...who knows why they grant wishes? Because it amuses them. And Genies fufil wishes because it serves their ego. Either with great pleasure, great relief, or it greatly angers them. Genies tend to be rather miserly with their wish granting powers.

[maouse33]

There was a whole movie franchise called "Wishmaster" - There's an EVIL OUTSIDER granting wishes. It really depends on the kind of creature doing it. "I Dream of Jeanie" was also a TV series where she basically had unlimited wishes for her master (and could do some for herself, if in her master's "best interest"). As far as PFS goes: consider what you would do if you had $25,000 - who would you help? Would you want a kickback?

[merpius]

I think it would create great player resentment if wishing doesn't at least require the words "I" and "wish", or at least the desire to be spoken to the wish granter. If you wish to have unintentional wishing, that could be the only requirement. But I can tell you I might even be tempted to quit a game if a GM decided that a comment made to a companion overheard by an invisible entity, and not phrased in the form of a wish, was to be interpreted as a wish and then, further, twisted into a glabrazu wish. I can see, however, someone daydreaming and just saying aloud "I wish I was rich," and said glabrazu "granting" that wish. I could also see a glabrazu disguised in the form of an old crone or something and someone saying to her "I would really like to be rich," and, once again, the glabrazu "granting" that "wish."

But, ultimately, the wish spell only indicates that "By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality to better suit you." So a GM could interpret that as, basically, anything goes if it is spoken aloud.

Then again, if the GM needs it to happen for a given story to work, then they can do anything. But, they still have to contend with player disatisfaction; arbitrariness/capriciousness is definitely something a lot of players do not appreciate, especially if they are not given advanced warning. And, if you tell your players in advanced that anything they say can be overheard by a glabrazu and turned into a wish I think everyone will be mute (or simply very, very, very careful with their words, such that every statement they make is fully pedantically lawyerly) or be always saying really crazy stuff in hopes of it appearing.

[Weirdo]

Definitely agree that as a GM you need to be careful not to abuse your players for making a Wish that they didn't know they were making.

For NPCs to get into trouble, though...

Adjoint wrote:

Weirdo wrote:

Personally I think it makes sense to vary based on creature.

Devils work through contracts, so if they can grant wishes it will only be through a contract, and if they sign it they are obligated to follow through - though they're unlikely to sign / grant the wish unless they're confident they'll come out on top.

Something noted for being capricious like a Marid or a fey might very well be capable of responding to unintentional wishes.

What do you think would fit a glabrezu? A demon whose favorite method of causing suffering is to twist the wishes of mortals, and who has a powerful Veil ability to pose as something else?

Glabrezu are tricky and treacherous, but they also represent the destructiveness of mortal desire. I would expect that a glabrezu could only grant a wish to someone who expressed a true heartfelt desire, not a whim or a slip of the tongue. And they should probably have to actually address this desire to the demon - glabrezu have the ability to disguise themselves, not to become invisible and eavesdrop. But the person making the wish wouldn't need to know that they were expressing this wish to a demon - or even that they were making a wish at all. Pouring your heart out to a "kindly old woman" about how badly you want a child of your own would be enough.

I would also expect that unlike a devil, a glabrezu could back out of a wish even if they told a mortal they would grant one.

[Ellias Aubec]

In one of the earlier APs, in the last book there is an encounter with some ruffians and a hidden creature that grants wishes working with the ruffians. In it, it explicitly says that the ruffians have to say "I wish..." for the creature to use its ability to grant a wish to his allies.

This seems to indicate that you cannot twist a request or suchlike without I wish being part of it.

[merpius]

I'd say, RAW, that that applies only to that particular species, maybe even that particular creature. Since other wish-granting species don't say that their use is much more open to interpretation.

I don't think I expressed this well in my earlier post, but I agree with what pretty much everyone has said; RAW-wise, you can do anything you like WRT wishes, given that wish only requires speaking out loud. I just focused on the wisdom of choosing a path of ambush against PCs.